Road Cycling

Bear · 3 Jul 2016 at 11:46

madindehead said:
Or it could be that when I'm on the turbo I spin more, and don't let my cadence drop as much. Perhaps "mashing" a bit too much is causing my problems.

I get discomfort in my right knee if I mash the pedals. I naturally pedal at around 80rpm but trying to train myself into pedalling at 90+ rpm. When I pedal at a faster cadence I don't get that discomfort.

From what I have read, pain at the back of the knee would indicate the saddle is too high or too far back.

madindehead · 3 Jul 2016 at 11:53

Bear said:
I get discomfort in my right knee if I mash the pedals. I naturally pedal at around 80rpm but trying to train myself into pedalling at 90+ rpm. When I pedal at a faster cadence I don't get that discomfort.

From what I have read, pain at the back of the knee would indicate the saddle is too high or too far back.

I don't think the saddle is too high. I mean, we put it up, and it's not got any worse than before. It could be a cadence thing. Because it's never present on the turbo, and I always spin at 80+ there.

Berger · 3 Jul 2016 at 12:02

Had my first Zwift group ride/race today. 4 laps of 3.5-4w/kg on the flat course then last lap go nuts.

Finished 9th, going up a short pinch at the end before some rollers it kicked off and I was a bit far back and missed a split. The first three disappeared off, I didn't see if they were using virtual power or proper trainer/power meter.

Good workout though, my internet started playing up on the last lap, typical Sunday night, so the bunch would disappear and my speed would drop then I'd reappear 10m off the back.

madindehead · 3 Jul 2016 at 12:43

So...how do I start training myself to naturally ride at a higher cadence. I have a feeling this could be part of the problem.

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 13:08

madindehead said:
This is my pathetic ride for the day: https://www.strava.com/activities/628356263

Had grand plans, but the insole in my right shoe was causing me massive pain I might have done my shoe up too tight. Loosening it off didn't seem to make it any better. Once again, I felt a few niggling pains in the back of my right knee.

Back of knee pain usually means that the saddle is too high, but it was low before, and it still caused problems Not happy.

madindehead said:
I don't think the saddle is too high. I mean, we put it up, and it's not got any worse than before. It could be a cadence thing. Because it's never present on the turbo, and I always spin at 80+ there.

madindehead said:
So...how do I start training myself to naturally ride at a higher cadence. I have a feeling this could be part of the problem.

Take a look at your cleat(s) on which ever side is causing you issues. My right cleat had slipped around 5mm forward causing a strain and visible bleed behind the knee a month or two ago.

Also the style in which you pedal, particularly the upstroke can affect this. Try to be a little smoother, particularly if getting out of the saddle and not 'yank' yourself/the cranks around.

madindehead · 3 Jul 2016 at 13:12

BennyC said:
Take a look at your cleat(s) on which ever side is causing you issues. My right cleat had slipped around 5mm forward causing a strain and visible bleed behind the knee a month or two ago.

Also the style in which you pedal, particularly the upstroke can affect this. Try to be a little smoother, particularly if getting out of the saddle and not 'yank' yourself/the cranks around.

Cool thanks. Cleats should be ok, as they were only fitted on Monday. But I'll take a look at them anyway.

I'll get a few turbo rides in during the week and see if any issues crop up there. If not, it's something I'm doing wrong on the road, so probably the lower cadence problem.

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 13:31

So my evenings last week were spent giving the Propel a make-over. I'd never been keen on the colour/styling but it was a steal £. Unsure if I intend to keep it (or for how long) and having been quoted £3-500 for a professional re-spray :eek:

I looked to another alternative...

Plasti-Dip. A sprayable & flexible rubber coating at £8 a can. Originally used for tool handles but quite a few modders on the car scene have used it for parts like grills, wing-mirrors, wheels or even the entire body. It peels off like a vynil so is easily removed and *should* be reasonably durable. It wipes clean too so won't be any more difficult to maintain.

A few points to note:

Contact points like the top tube - longevity in these areas will be interesting.
Any cracks/defects in the frame will most likely be hidden if they develop but not much I can do about that until It's removed and are revealed, or it falls to pieces beneath me.
It's quite a forgiving material to apply (though it gets everywhere), in that runs can be easily corrected and even once dry thinners make it manipulatable for any areas that need repairs.
No prep required before applying except a really good clean and almost entire strip.
Weight added is in the region of 30-40 grams.
It is slightly textured though different application methods can achieve a smooth finish.
It's a little grippy, being rubber
I don't think 'bouncability' will have improved

I can go in to more detail if people want as I took images during the process :cool:

Before: (Wheel decals picked up since though waiting for some replacement 'Aeolus 5' as 3 of them wouldn't come off the backing).

From this mornings ride:

Some from yesterday:

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 13:34

madindehead said:
Cool thanks. Cleats should be ok, as they were only fitted on Monday. But I'll take a look at them anyway.

Just because they were fitted Monday doesn't mean the position is fine

The pedal spindle should be inline with the ball of the foot IIRC or there about. If it's further back than this shift them forward a bit.

The other option is to shift the saddle forward if it is excessively far back and then increase stem length if reach is too short.

If you're getting persistent problems I'd go and get fitted or have someone film you on a turbo to see if anything strikes you as obviously adrift.

madindehead · 3 Jul 2016 at 13:50

BennyC said:
Just because they were fitted Monday doesn't mean the position is fine

The pedal spindle should be inline with the ball of the foot IIRC or there about. If it's further back than this shift them forward a bit.

The other option is to shift the saddle forward if it is excessively far back and then increase stem length if reach is too short.

If you're getting persistent problems I'd go and get fitted or have someone film you on a turbo to see if anything strikes you as obviously adrift.

Sorry, I should have clarified, that I did have a bike fit on Monday, which is when the cleats were fitted

The bike is looking good Benny! The finish looks incredibly sharp. How many cans did you need to coat the entire bike?

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 14:36

madindehead said:
Sorry, I should have clarified, that I did have a bike fit on Monday, which is when the cleats were fitted

Ahh

It feels counter intuitive but dropping the heel at the bottom of the stroke (keeping the foot flat, rather than toe pointed down) will take some load of the back of the knee and engage a bit more of the posterior chain.

Chances are on the turbo you're not getting bumped around out of the saddle etc.

With regards to upping cadence, just don't change up a gear until you hit and hold 100rpm. Again it feels counter-intuitive to spin a gear too easily for too long but if you look at your change in speed between spinning highly in a lower gear and mashing and using up leg strength in a lower gear, it's minimal.

You'll need to learn to anchor your hips and engage your core to minimise any rocking. Even when gunning it on the flat I very rarely fall below 95rpm and am to sit around 100.

There's no right or wrong though and a high cadence isn't the be all and end all. But in your instance it would suggest lower load through the area of the knee causing you pain.

The bike is looking good Benny! The finish looks incredibly sharp. How many cans did you need to coat the entire bike?

Ta, 4 with some left over. And I wasted the majority of the first one trialing the fork the week before, was spraying from far too far away and hence ended up just covering the contents of my garage in it. You could use less depending on what colour your frame is going from/to. I later made a make-shift spray booth and hung polythene sheets from the rafters to make a 'containment' area

I used 1 can of 'Glossifier' but could have done with two really, to take it from matt to gloss and make cleaning even easier.

They do some pretty funky colours and generally speaking it's relatively easy to do so if the mood takes me I might go for something a bit more vibrant :eek:

madindehead · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:12

That's not too bad cost wise then!

Thanks, I'll start looking to do that when I'm riding

Thanks for all your advice (and everyone ease) on riding and eating by the way. Helps a lot!

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:16

madindehead said:
That's not too bad cost wise then!

Yep, cheap enough to experiment with

Thanks, I'll start looking to do that when I'm riding Thanks for all your advice (and everyone ease) on riding and eating by the way. Helps a lot!

I also find when riding with a higher cadence I need less recovery time after a ride and can ride further/longer on the same/less food. Perhaps from staying in aerobic zones for longer and generally being less taxing.

jpaul · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:33

eh - Not trying to troll but first thought was - is there no chemical compatibility concern between plasti-dip and a carbon-fibre frame ?
I have been paranoid about identifying a paint for touch-up on a carbon fibre frame and had avoided nail varnish due to acetone - but plasti-dip has that,
maybe the plasti-dip will not permeate the existing covering

SECTION II - HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS OF MATERIAL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| HAZARDOUS | APPROX. | TLV | C.A.S. | LD 50 |
| INGREDIENTS | % CONCENT.| PPM | NUMBERS | ORAL, RAT |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|ALIPHATIC NAPTHA | 30.0-60.0 | NO DATA | 64742-89-8 | NO DATA |
|XYLENE | 10.0-30.0 | 100 | 1330-20-7 | 4300 MG/KG |
|HEXANE | 10.0-30.0 | 50 | 110-54-3 |28710 MG/KG |
|ACETONE | 7.0-13.0 | 750 | 67-64-1 | 9750 MG/KG |
|ETHYL BENZENE | 1.0-5.0 | NO DATA | 100-41-4 | 4300 MG/KG |
|SILICA (FUMED) | 1.0-5.0 | 10 MG/M3| 112945-52-5 | NO DATA |

madindehead · 3 Jul 2016 at 15:48

About your cadence Benny (and others): What cassette do you run on the back? A standard 11-28?

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 16:40

jpaul said:
eh - Not trying to troll but first thought was - is there no chemical compatibility concern between plasti-dip and a carbon-fibre frame ?
I have been paranoid about identifying a paint for touch-up on a carbon fibre frame and had avoided nail varnish due to acetone - but plasti-dip has that,
maybe the plasti-dip will not permeate the existing covering

Good point, I should think as long as the clearcoat & base itself hasn't been compromised (which it hasn't) it should be fine. Is it not truly bonding anyway due to it's peelable/removable nature?

I've seen a few others 'dip' chinese carbon frames with no ill reports but you might quite right, something I'd overlooked in all honesty.

If the geometry is TT compatible I will doing a conversion at a later date so would probably get it professionally sprayed in this instance, if not I probably won't keep it a great deal longer in which case it'll be coming off.

SoliD · 3 Jul 2016 at 17:05

Benny,

I know it's personal preference but much prefer the original colour scheme, could have pimped it out with some matching cable outers and bar tape like mine!

BennyC · 3 Jul 2016 at 17:20

SoliD said:
Benny,

I know it's personal preference but much prefer the original colour scheme, could have pimped it out with some matching cable outers and bar tape like mine!

I really couldn't stand it

the front/back halves separately were fine but together. Gross. And the chain stays/down tube being two tone in them at pattern. Ergghh.

Much happier with it for now. What does yours look like out of curiosity?

SoliD · 3 Jul 2016 at 18:27

BennyC said:
I really couldn't stand it the front/back halves separately were fine but together. Gross. And the chain stays/down tube being two tone in them at pattern. Ergghh.

Much happier with it for now. What does yours look like out of curiosity?

On my phone but check out the gallery.

alexisonfire · 3 Jul 2016 at 18:41

I was feeling pretty rough today but we had planned to go out on a particular route so stuck to it! Thought i would take the GoPro out for a test and try and layer the Garmin data over the top, was surprised how easy it was and how well it worked!

Heres a video of a very tired self going up a gross climb

DaleTheWhale · 3 Jul 2016 at 21:28

"Morning"

"Heyasdbfdn"