Rocket lake leaks

[pc-guy]

IPC of rocket lake is defintiely down on Zen 3.

AMD have scope to reduce pricing when rocket drops - and also they will have much better availability by then too.

or they can release better binned chips such as XT range (but makes the naming of CPU similar to the last gen GPU is not a good idea).

Or they can release a whole raft of cheaper SKUs like the 3700x and 3600 equivalent to undermine intel.

Intel is playing ctach up, AMD is coming from a position of strength so got loads of things they can do. But I feel AMD is really focusing on GPU production atm trying to get GPUs out to Sony and MS as well as AIBs and coming up a way to deal with DLSS;

not to mention all the enterprise sectors they are focusing as well as OEM and Laptop space. i don't know if they are going to be biting off too much to chew by spreading their resources too thin. there is only 1 Lisa Su...

 

[4K8KW10]

I'll wait for DDR5 and PCIe 5. I don't have to upgrade for a couple of years and I want to see how things are going to change in 2021 before I even start thinking about building a new PC.

These won't be released in 2021 (unless Intel hurries with Alder Lake but over there it's quite big unknown - it hopes for improved yields but have no control for many years over it), most probably 2022.

 

[humbug]

IPC of rocket lake is defintiely down on Zen 3.

AMD have scope to reduce pricing when rocket drops - and also they will have much better availability by then too.

or they can release better binned chips such as XT range (but makes the naming of CPU similar to the last gen GPU is not a good idea).

Or they can release a whole raft of cheaper SKUs like the 3700x and 3600 equivalent to undermine intel.

Intel is playing ctach up, AMD is coming from a position of strength so got loads of things they can do. But I feel AMD is really focusing on GPU production atm trying to get GPUs out to Sony and MS as well as AIBs and coming up a way to deal with DLSS;

not to mention all the enterprise sectors they are focusing as well as OEM and Laptop space. i don't know if they are going to be biting off too much to chew by spreading their resources too thin. there is only 1 Lisa Su...

Zen 4 only need to be a + revision (+10%) to put them back on top, Rocket Lake is going to be much less better over Zen 3 than Ice Lake was over Zen 2 and AMD sold 8X more Zen 2 CPU's in the DIY space than Intel sold Ice Lake, Intel are not winning this back yet, not by a long way.

PS: AMD have filed 'GPU Chiplet' design patents.

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-details-upcoming-chiplet-gpus-in-patent/

 

[4K8KW10]

Technically, improving the IPC is more complicated and a tougher job than just "gluing" more cores.
More cores - better to have 128 slow cores than 4 super expensive fast cores.

This is why the graphics cards will also go chiplets - because they see an optimisation opportunity there.

 

[humbug]

Technically, improving the IPC is more complicated and a tougher job than just "gluing" more cores.
More cores - better to have 128 slow cores than 4 super expensive fast cores.

This is why the graphics cards will also go chiplets - because they see an optimisation opportunity there.

I know.

Zen IPC 100%
Kaby Lake IPC 105%

Zen+ IPC 102%
Coffee Lake IPC 105%

Zen 2 IPC 118%
Ice Lake IPC 105%

Zen 3 IPC 135%
Rocket Lake IPC 128%

Its not as if AMD haven't managed it.

 

[4K8KW10]

I know.

Zen IPC 100%
Kaby Lake IPC 105%

Zen+ IPC 102%
Coffee Lake IPC 105%

Zen 2 IPC 118%
Ice Lake IPC 105%

Zen 3 IPC 135%
Rocket Lake IPC 128%

Its not as if AMD haven't managed it.

AMD has access to better manufacturing nodes which gives them opportunity to make the cores wider, add transistors at no silicon die cost once shrunk, hence improving the IPC.

 

[Roadrunner_668]

talk of ddr5? surely thats some way off yet ha ha

 

[humbug]

AMD has access to better manufacturing nodes which gives them opportunity to make the cores wider, add transistors at no silicon die cost once shrunk, hence improving the IPC.

Now you're over simplifying if it was that easy everyone would be doing it. never the less you are right, it is true if its something you have the talent for, they don't always get it right. RE: Bulldozer or Pentium 4, its very easy to make mistakes in something that is extraordinarily complicated.

The other side is AMD's design, Intel can't make a monolithic CPU at the IPC level's with as many cores as AMD can even on the same node. Well maybe they could but it wouldn't be as cost effective as AMD's. Chiplets BTW make it even more complicated.
------------

Off Topic for this but as a side while on about Chiplet designes, i can see AMD going:

IO Die
RT Die / Dies
Shaders Die / Dies

For RDNA3 or RDNA4, plug in what and as much as needed.

 

[Cromulent]

These won't be released in 2021 (unless Intel hurries with Alder Lake but over there it's quite big unknown - it hopes for improved yields but have no control for many years over it), most probably 2022.

Even better. Gives me an extra year to save some more money for a better system.

 

[4K8KW10]

Now you're over simplifying if it was that easy everyone would be doing it. never the less you are right, it is true if its something you have the talent for, they don't always get it right. RE: Bulldozer or Pentium 4, its very easy to make mistakes in something that is extraordinarily complicated.

The other side is AMD's design, Intel can't make a monolithic CPU at the IPC level's with as many cores as AMD can even on the same node. Well maybe they could but it wouldn't be as cost effective as AMD's. Chiplets BTW make it even more complicated.
------------

Off Topic for this but as a side while on about Chiplet designes, i can see AMD going:

IO Die
RT Die / Dies
Shaders Die / Dies

For RDNA3 or RDNA4, plug in what and as much as needed.

Well,

Bulldozer was ahead of its time and the software developers ruined its success, more or less.
Pentium 4 was a marketing disaster - someone high at Intel liked the gigahertz race and wanted desperately that 10 GHz CPU. It has never happened.
But they had the mobile line with another micro-architecture that saved them...

 

[darket]

Well,

Bulldozer was ahead of its time and the software developers ruined its success, more or less.

No it wasn't. Bulldozer was an awful architecture. It was slow, hot , the platform was poorly developed and buggy as hell. AMD blatantly lied about it capabilities. It was a disaster from beginning to end as was pretty much every CPU after until Zen. (AM And FM platforms were equally dreadful)

 

[4K8KW10]

No it wasn't. Bulldozer was an awful architecture. It was slow, hot

Just like all Intel CPUs as of today.

 

[humbug]

Just like all Intel CPUs as of today.

Not quite, Intel over the last few years have been pushing a worse architecture to the limits to keep up, but they did keep up in some workloads and better in gaming, at least with everything prior to Zen 3.

AMD pushed Bulldozer right to the limit to keep up with their own ancient Athlon derived Phenom architecture and couldn't even manage that let alone keep up with Intel.

Bulldozer was a massive cockup.

 

[darket]

Just like all Intel CPUs as of today.

I don't understand your point, firstly Intel for one reason or another are stuck for the time being on their current process node so in terms of a 14nm CPU its an amazing chip and for many people still does extremely well and Just like AMD Intel will fair the bad weather and come back. ZEN 3 is a fantastic CPU and if I was buying a CPU today i would give it serious consideration, but I'm not as my 10700k is blisteringly fast and does everything I need it to and swapping out to a 5000 series Zen would gain me net ZERO in anything outside of pointless synthetic benchmarks.

AMD went through a period of nearly a decade or not learning from it's own mistakes until finally hiring some talent and climbing out of the bucket and the market is now all the better for it.

 

[FireTwo]

Just like all Intel CPUs as of today.

this keeps cropping up,

talk of hot intel chips I dont quite get it,
sure a 9900k was hot if you pumped 1.35volts into it, but the 10700/10900k run much cooler thanks to the thinner IHS.

the 5800X AMD I tested was just as hot as my 10900k at 5.3ghz with 1.350v.

the 5900/5950x seem very very hot once pushing on past 4.7ghz.

 

[humbug]

I don't understand your point, firstly Intel for one reason or another are stuck for the time being on their current process node so in terms of a 14nm CPU its an amazing chip and for many people still does extremely well and Just like AMD Intel will fair the bad weather and come back. ZEN 3 is a fantastic CPU and if I was buying a CPU today i would give it serious consideration, but I'm not as my 10700k is blisteringly fast and does everything I need it to and swapping out to a 5000 series Zen would gain me net ZERO in anything outside of pointless synthetic benchmarks.

AMD went through a period of nearly a decade or not learning from it's own mistakes until finally hiring some talent and climbing out of the bucket and the market is now all the better for it.

It says 10600K in your Sig?

Anyway, AMD knew they made a mistake with Bulldozer, they just wouldn't admit it publicly, they also spent most of that decade playing dodgems with bankruptsy, they didn't have the finances to put those mistakes right, at least not quickly, Zen was them fixing that mistake, it just took a long time, it was developed on a shoe string budget.

AMD have a lot of cashflow now as a result of it. Better things to come, hell they just bough Xilinx for $35bn

 

[darket]

It says 10600K in your Sig?

Anyway, AMD knew they made a mistake with Bulldozer, they just wouldn't admit it publicly, they also spent most of that decade playing dodgems with bankruptsy, they didn't have the finances to put those mistakes right, at least not quickly, Zen was them fixing that mistake, it just took a long time, it was developed on a shoe string budget.

AMD have a lot of cashflow now as a result of it. Better things to come, hell they just bough Xilinx for $35bn

Yeah a 10700k came up at a price I couldn't refuse from a friend, just haven't changed my sig yet.

I wouldn't agree on AMD, they came out with some cracking Gpu's in that time such as the 290/290x. They totally dropped the ball on CPU's and became the 'budget' brand they are still shaking off today that's in some ways deserved and some ways not.

 

[4K8KW10]

Not quite, Intel over the last few years have been pushing a worse architecture to the limits to keep up, but they did keep up in some workloads and better in gaming, at least with everything prior to Zen 3.

AMD pushed Bulldozer right to the limit to keep up with their own ancient Athlon derived Phenom architecture and couldn't even manage that let alone keep up with Intel.

Bulldozer was a massive cockup.

Ever heard of Llano, Trinity, Richland, Kaveri and Bristol Ridge?

AMD's A10-7890K (Q2 2016) is exactly 51% faster than the A8-3870K (Q4 2011) like Core i7-7700K (Q4 2016) is 51% faster than Core i7-3770K (Q2 2012)..

PassMark - AMD A8-3870K APU - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - AMD A10-7890K - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)

PassMark - Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - Intel Core i7-7700K @ 4.20GHz - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)

 

[humbug]

Yeah a 10700k came up at a price i could refuse from a friend, just haven't changed my sig yet.

I wouldn't agree on AMD, they came out with some cracking Gpu's in that time such as the 290/290x. They totally dropped the ball on CPU's and became the 'budget' brand they are still shaking off today that's in some ways deserved and some ways not.

I'll be changing a couple things in my signature soon too Not the GPU, decided to keep that until things settle.

AMD haven't been a wealthy company since the early 2000's, some might argue Bulldozer was the result of a lack of funds, i don't agree, they created Zen with even less.

Another problem AMD had was a lack of direction, coupled with competing on two fronts with limited revenue they could only chose one or the other, for a while it was GPU's and they made some good GPU's as you cited, but it didn't help them much financially, they also messed about with creating new ways in how Software interacts with Hardware, Heterogeneous System Architecture, Unified Memory Architecture, The Mantel API, HSA tho brilliant went nowhere, uMA along with it tho even Intel are now looking at those technologies and Mantel is now Vulkan, it helped drive the long overdue Graphics API revolution, it was of no benefit to AMD tho, just expense.

In comes Dr Lisa Sue and sets a direction for the company, limited budget so literally ignore GPU's, Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Make Zen a working success and get some revenue out of it, then do the same for GPU's, we are at the start of the second part now

 

[darket]

Ever heard of Llano, Trinity, Richland, Kaveri and Bristol Ridge?

AMD's A10-7890K (Q2 2016) is exactly 51% faster than the A8-3870K (Q4 2011) like Core i7-7700K (Q4 2016) is 51% faster than Core i7-3770K (Q2 2012)..

PassMark - AMD A8-3870K APU - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - AMD A10-7890K - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)

PassMark - Intel Core i7-3770K @ 3.50GHz - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)
PassMark - Intel Core i7-7700K @ 4.20GHz - Price performance comparison (cpubenchmark.net)

They were all garbage CPU's. Just because they were cheap doesn't make them good. As basic browsing/word processing CPU's they did the job but for anything else it was just a waste of sand (And money)