Rocket Lake Review: A waste of sand...

[humbug]

Well I have not tested any of them as I don't have a Core i5 11400F myself,it was just the comparison I saw between the two. But I would imagine,one of the big problems Gamersnexus showed was CFL consistently ran at a higher clockspeed than RKL which had problems. With the lower end parts I suspect,their rated clockspeeds are not that high for Intel 14NM+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ so can hit their rated clockspeeds a bit easier. The top end parts are probably rated past the ideal V/F curves for the node Intel are using,so end up throttling once they boost past a certain clockspeed.

My main gripe is that by now we should at least have a refreshed the Zen2 parts now in some way. Even replace the Ryzen 5 3600 with the Ryzen 5 3600XT,etc. After all the Ryzen 5 3600 is only 4 months to its 2nd birthday!

Do you think with the new architecture Rocket Lake just can't clock quite as high as Comet Lake, at least at the high end to get those really high Mhz?

Steve Burke did say he tried hard to overclock the 11700K and it just wouldn't have it.

A 3600XT would be good, the process is much more mature now and with it Zen 2 does clock higher than when the 3600 was first released, again tho, no more than £150, or even that, they still don't look good compared with an 11400F at a similar price which i think is probably faster even if you could get a 3600XT to 4.6Ghz.

 

[dazzlaa]

Actually the thread was perfectly fine, right up until this troll grenade.

This is the point where it goes wrong, if you get your way.

Hardly a troll grenade now was it. As I said; I did not read the thread but it’s not unlikely that enthusiasts would argue about what is better.

 

[Journey]

The 11400f isn't good value, but the 11400 could prove to be if the GPU is decent enough. The 10400f on the other hand I can't get enough of, now that the B560/H560 boards are freely available they are epically good value, and you get Hitman 3 (+ other games/addons) for free at the moment.

You can put together a 10400f, B560 or H570 with 16GB 3200MHz (or faster) for ~£250, this it is a serious performer, just like the R5 3600 was at £140 plus a B450, and the same RAM.

If you want budget kit buy Intel!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Do you think with the new architecture Rocket Lake just can't clock quite as high as Comet Lake, at least at the high end to get those really high Mhz?

Steve Burke did say he tried hard to overclock the 11700K and it just wouldn't have it.

A 3600XT would be good, the process is much more mature now and with it Zen 2 does clock higher than when the 3600 was first released, again tho, no more than £150, or even that, they still don't look good compared with an 11400F at a similar price which i think is probably faster even if you could get a 3600XT to 4.6Ghz.

It's hard to say,but I suspect each of the cores has more transistors,and is larger so you need more power to do so. The issue is that the 14NM+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ process will have a point at which the V/F curve goes wonky and means you need far more power(and hence more heat produced) to get to the same point.So potentially yes,but some of the frequency variations do seem to be likely to do with the CPUs starting to hit their TDP/power limits also.

A Ryzen 5 3600XT might be enough to claw back some gains for Zen2,but I still think a cache reduced Ryzen 5 part might be enough,and AMD could get away with using worse Ryzen 5 5600X bins then.

 

[dazzlaa]

The 11400f isn't good value, but the 11400 could prove to be if the GPU is decent enough. The 10400f on the other hand I can't get enough of, now that the B560/H560 boards are freely available they are epically good value, and you get Hitman 3 (+ other games/addons) for free at the moment.

You can put together a 10400f, B560 or H570 with 16GB 3200MHz (or faster) for ~£250, this it is a serious performer, just like the R5 3600 was at £140 plus a B450, and the same RAM.

If you want budget kit buy Intel!

why would you prefer the 10400?

I think my 11400f + H570 ITX board cost 270 total. Didn’t think that was a bad deal at all but happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Journey]

why would you prefer the 10400?

I think my 11400f + H570 ITX board cost 270 total. Didn’t think that was a bad deal at all but happy to be proven wrong.

The 10400f is very cheap negative £30 below the 11400f, as I said the 11400 is the one to watch out for, as it has the Xe GPU and could be a great little performer for media/very light gaming.

If you want to be brutal about it what is 25% more cost getting you in performance 1-2% at most? If you need the PCI-E 4.0 or some other feature of the 11th Gen chip then yes it is is till good value, but £30 can get you half a kit of decent RAM.

 

[dazzlaa]

The 10400f is very cheap negative £30 below the 11400f, as I said the 11400 is the one to watch out for, as it has the Xe GPU and could be a great little performer for media/very light gaming.

If you want to be brutal about it what is 25% more cost getting you in performance 1-2% at most? If you need the PCI-E 4.0 or some other feature of the 11th Gen chip then yes it is is till good value, but £30 can get you half a kit of decent RAM.

I thought I’d read that the 11th gen chips are going to bring big single core performance gains over 10th? should be better for gaming if so.

 

[Journey]

I thought I’d read that the 11th gen chips are going to bring big single core performance gains over 10th? should be better for gaming if so.

If you believe marketing maybe, but in reality it will be very small. One of the reasons the 10400f on a B/H board was a terrible idea was due to the RAM speed being limited, but now that limit has gone it means you are getting more performance for a lower cost than ever before. As I said it's only £30, but £30 at that end of the market can make a huge difference elsewhere, like going from a 500GB SSD to 1TB, or getting a quiet cooler, or a much better case.

 

[pandem0nium]

The 10400f is very cheap negative £30 below the 11400f, as I said the 11400 is the one to watch out for, as it has the Xe GPU and could be a great little performer for media/very light gaming.

If you want to be brutal about it what is 25% more cost getting you in performance 1-2% at most? If you need the PCI-E 4.0 or some other feature of the 11th Gen chip then yes it is is till good value, but £30 can get you half a kit of decent RAM.

You'll lose the whole m.2 slot from the CPU though on the new boards. It won't just get downgraded to gen 3.

I'm Interested in seeing how Xe graphics do as well. I like that the boards now have hdmi 2.0 as standard as well.

 

[Journey]

You'll lose the whole m.2 slot from the CPU though on the new boards. It won't just get downgraded to gen 3.

Yep, again on a budget system one slot is enough, and most of the B560/H570 have 2x M.2 so it's no big deal really. Again we are talking budget systems here, where you can't get everything you want, hopefully the 11400 will drop down to the price the 10400f is now though.

I'm Interested in seeing how Xe graphics do as well. I like that the boards now have hdmi 2.0 as standard as well.

I'd like to see a side-by-side with a 3400g/4650g, I love my 4650g, but they are expensive vs the 11400 and it it is anywhere near as fast it will be a bargain.

 

[KompuKare]

I'm sure there was also behind the scenes lobbying from mobo manufactures to not support PCIe 4.0 for older boards.
Plus if it had been allowed, I'm sure it would have clearly shown those OEMs who cheapened out on track design (does more copper make a difference there?) and general design.
Still it is very good of AMD to take all the blame and let the mobo manufacturers of!

 

[Grim5]

I'm sure there was also behind the scenes lobbying from mobo manufactures to not support PCIe 4.0 for older boards.
Plus if it had been allowed, I'm sure it would have clearly shown those OEMs who cheapened out on track design (does more copper make a difference there?) and general design.
Still it is very good of AMD to take all the blame and let the mobo manufacturers of!

That's happened on the amd side too, the AIb didn't want AMD to allow PCIe4 on non 500 series boards even though the older boards can support it

 

[doc]

I thought I’d read that the 11th gen chips are going to bring big single core performance gains over 10th? should be better for gaming if so.

Early results on userbenchmark and passmark suggest about 15-20% uplift on previous generation. But these should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt as the sample sizes are currently very low.

 

[pete910]

damn that is awful against a lower core ryzen
Really awful

The power use between the two is what shocked me most. I thought the 5600 chip was a 105w part, Most i saw in the first vid was 60w with the intel a little over 100w

 

[Journey]

Early results on userbenchmark and passmark suggest about 15-20%

Might as well quote D. Trump, you'll get about the same level of truth as from those sources as to what has changed.

 

[Grim5]

Early results on userbenchmark and passmark suggest about 15-20% uplift on previous generation. But these should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt as the sample sizes are currently very low.

These don't really reflect gaming performance though, they could be +100% and still doesn't reflect gaming. and Userbenchmark is a Intel shill

 

[Grim5]

Simple evidence to show how much shill UserFakeBenchMark does

Consistently they have hammered on about AMD's memory latency and use it to deduct points from AMD's single core performance and put high scores on Intel for their low latency.

fast forward, here we have the 11700k putting out 62ns latency, 50% higher than last gen Intel and higher than Ryzen 5000 and yet UserFakeBenchMark still continues to give this CPU a very high memory score despite it being slower than and AMD CPU https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/41300013

 

[Tetras]

Yep, again on a budget system one slot is enough, and most of the B560/H570 have 2x M.2 so it's no big deal really. Again we are talking budget systems here, where you can't get everything you want, hopefully the 11400 will drop down to the price the 10400f is now though.

I'd like to see a side-by-side with a 3400g/4650g, I love my 4650g, but they are expensive vs the 11400 and it it is anywhere near as fast it will be a bargain.

Stealth nerf of the 11400 IGP (vs 11500) is freaking annoying

 

[Journey]

Stealth nerf of the 11400 IGP (vs 11500) is freaking annoying

Yeah 24 vs 32 Xu's is annoying, but I reckon with the very fast RAM OC, and the IGP overclocked in XTU you'll still get some good performance out of it.

 

[clv101]

The power use between the two is what shocked me most. I thought the 5600 chip was a 105w part, Most i saw in the first vid was 60w with the intel a little over 100w

The power efficiency of the 5600X is fantastic, these Intel chips are just inexcusably greedy.