*** Rogue One: A Star Wars Story *** (NOW WITH SPOILERS)

[v0n]

with Star Wars, the expectation is to have strong story with memorable characters and lines of dialogue that gets into the pop culture.

I think we gonna remember and filter through to pop culture just enough.

cough cough "The Force is with me and I am one with the Force", "Congratulations on being rescued", "Rebellions are built on hope", "I find that answer vague and unconvincing". And I only seen it once.

I don't know man, I usually complain a lot about movies, but I thought this was the one movie that literally brought balance to The Force. Are you sure you didn't attend too late of a screening Ray?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Do you appreciate that some of the most iconic things from Star Wars are not people?

The element that has penetrated in to pulp culture most of all is the storm trooper, and they have zero characterisation in the way you describe it! When you see a kid's Star Wars lunchbox, what do you normally see? Storm troopers, the death star, AT-ATs, X-Wings, TIE Fighters. I'd argue that those are the real "Stars" of Star Wars. Ultimately this film catered more to Star Wars pop culture than any movie before. Just think of all the iconic things that appeared!

I understand that the saga on the whole has had memorable dialogue, but this isn't supposed to be one of those, so it isn't fair to compare it to that in the way you're doing.

Yes, hence all the light sabre and space ship toys, for a movie, a good movie, and a Star Wars movie, good characterisation ADDS to the movie. It beggars belief that people would say non-characterisation or lack of characterisation works because they dies because you don't care.

Good characterisation would have added another layer, an important layer, but as it is, the group is no more than the faces in the X-wing that got shot down.

I think we gonna remember and filter through to pop culture just enough.

cough cough "The Force is with me and I am one with the Force", "Congratulations on being rescued", "Rebellions are built on hope", "I find that answer vague and unconvincing". And I only seen it once.

I don't know man, I usually complain a lot about movies, but I thought this was the one movie that literally brought balance to The Force. Are you sure you didn't attend too late of a screening Ray?

I disagree, sorry.

Time will tell and beyond the 3rd act being an impressive, perhaps the most impressive Star Wars battle, this movie lacks real meat. It's a lot of surface, good surface but lacks meat. I mean the story was good, it is just missing that important ingredient for me.

Right now, I like, i just don't love it.

 

[mods1965]

I absolutely loved this film. Amazing! 10 out of 10 for me. Going to see it again in IMAX. Feels like 1978 again with that end!

 

[Efour]

I thought the characters were fine, disposable heroes. Like most real soldiers are.
None of them were likeable, they did what was needed. I'm glad they all died. They had to all die, anything less would have been a total cop out.
It's ironic I felt most emotional when the robot died.. everyone died with a purpose, very Nobel if you ask me.

 

[Fubsy]

good characterisation ADDS to the movie.

At the cost of what? I think it can take away in terms of pacing, removal of mystery and in the case of this movie would just come over as

Spoiler

"I really want you to like these characters, so that when we kill them all it'll hopefully be a right kick in the balls". It's not needed, unlike when Han was bumped off in FA.

The story is about the rebels stealing the plans for the DS and the reason it had such a laughable weakness, leading on to ANH and the rise of Luke. We don't need these characters beyond this film, they don't need to be fleshed out - what we needed was action and drama in a faithful Star Wars universe that did justice to the original trilogy, and I think we got that in spades. Leave all the (hopefully good, because it's been a bit iffy so far) characterisation to the new trilogy.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I thought the characters were fine, disposable heroes. Like most real soldiers are.
None of them were likeable, they did what was needed. I'm glad they all died. They had to all die, anything less would have been a total cop out.
It's ironic I felt most emotional when the robot died.. everyone died with a purpose, very Nobel if you ask me.

The point I am trying to convey is not I wish they didn't die, and I knew they were going to die going in, but by knowing more of them would give the movie a new layer.

Not being likeable or not doesn't matter, it is the impact of their death that hits home. If you really hated a character, like Joffery in GoT, I was so glad he died, I hated him but he was a well drawn character. So I don't need to like the characters that gets killed in order to feel something. Yes I know they didn't have 4 seasons to build a character in this.

The character in this are like you said, disposable, which was the sad part, as they were our heroes, they should be treated a with a little more care than your average disposable characters.

At the cost of what? I think it can take away in terms of pacing, removal of mystery and in the case of this movie would just come over as

Spoiler

"I really want you to like these characters, so that when we kill them all it'll hopefully be a right kick in the balls". It's not needed, unlike when Han was bumped off in FA.

The story is about the rebels stealing the plans for the DS and the reason it had such a laughable weakness, leading on to ANH and the rise of Luke. We don't need these characters beyond this film, they don't need to be fleshed out - what we needed was action and drama in a faithful Star Wars universe that did justice to the original trilogy, and I think we got that in spades. Leave all the (hopefully good, because it's been a bit iffy so far) characterisation to the new trilogy.

As I already said, I don't need tones of it but the lead of the movie, Diego's character...his character is explained by "I have been doing this since I am 6 years old!" and his shooting someone in the back.

He is the male lead and that was his entire characterisation, adding a line here or there in the first hour would have helped.

It seems a lot of people here are happy with 1 dimensional characters in this movie, which is surprising to say the least.

 

[JBuk]

Just seen it, overall I enjoyed it and would rate it 7.5/10

Grand Moff Tarkin cgi let it down , he was almost plastic

Vaders last scene was epic and I wished it was longer, I'd love them to do a stand alone Vader movie

 

[v0n]

It beggars belief that people would say non-characterisation or lack of characterisation works because they dies because you don't care.

1/4 of Saving Private Ryan run time depicts events at the Omaha Beach. The critically acclaimed as the most realistic war scene ever created the 38 minutes sequence consists of over 200 shots with 8 second average duration each showing death after death after death. What do you get in terms of character development? What do you get characterisation? There was no reason to connect you with any of the characters - they weren't coming back for more at that point. We, the audience, still cared though, people had genuine PTSD effects after watching that scene.

You simply mistook war movie for a saga. You get to know Jyn from her youngest years, you know her childhood trauma, you know her parents, her relation to Empire, you know who rescued her, where she grew up and what she did for living. You know more about Jyn than I knew about Luke Skywalker after Star Wars end credits rolled in 1978. You know more about Chirrut than we knew about Kenobi. It is only because the movie doesn't pause to show them gazing into the sunsets and share tear jerking daddy story over a cave fire that we feel we are not as closely drawn to them as we were to Skywalkers and Kenobis.

But that's the difference between getting you to like the characters because you will follow them for years and getting you to like the story. There is no reason for the movie to try and connect you with your inner Erso or Imwe - they aren't coming back again. They are your "Easy" Company substitute, your Band Of Brothers replacement. It doesn't matter if it's full of cuddly characters or mean a-holes - their mission is known and the outcome of their heroics is still the same.

That said, I don't actually know why they casted Luna as male lead. He does come across as Tesco Saver Cornflakes substituting for Christmas Lunch.

 

[Raymond Lin]

1/4 of Saving Private Ryan run time depicts events at the Omaha Beach. The critically acclaimed as the most realistic war scene ever created the 38 minutes sequence consists of over 200 shots with 8 second average duration each showing death after death after death. What do you get in terms of character development? What do you get characterisation? There was no reason to connect you with any of the characters - they weren't coming back for more at that point. We, the audience, still cared though, people had genuine PTSD effects after watching that scene.

You simply mistook war movie for a saga. You get to know Jyn from her youngest years, you know her childhood trauma, you know her parents, her relation to Empire, you know who rescued her, where she grew up and what she did for living. You know more about Jyn than I knew about Luke Skywalker after Star Wars end credits rolled in 1978. You know more about Chirrut than we knew about Kenobi. It is only because the movie doesn't pause to show them gazing into the sunsets and share tear jerking daddy story over a cave fire that we feel we are not as closely drawn to them as we were to Skywalkers and Kenobis.

But that's the difference between getting you to like the characters because you will follow them for years and getting you to like the story. There is no reason for the movie to try and connect you with your inner Erso or Imwe - they aren't coming back again. They are your "Easy" Company substitute, your Band Of Brothers replacement. It doesn't matter if it's full of cuddly characters or mean a-holes - their mission is known and the outcome of their heroics is still the same.

The start of SPR is a brutal scene but because it is the start, I really felt nothing much to the people who died bar from seeing the brutality of war.

Which isn't something you can do because it is the start of the movie. So what do I get? nothing, because it is the start.

At 2 hours into Rogue One I know as much about them as the soldiers on SPR in the first 20 mins.

 

[v0n]

At 2 hours into Rogue One I know as much about them as the soldiers on SPR in the first 20 mins.

Precisely, because it's just a run way for ep IV, V and VI.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Precisely, because it's just a run way for ep IV, V and VI.

And the question goes back to, that's a good thing?

 

[memyselfandi]

Saw the film earlier this afternoon. Personally I thought it was ok but not great. Normally in a Star Wars film there is the odd humorous one liner but here when they tried it tended to fall flat.

Didn't help that there were quite a few children in the screening who were younger than the films showing and didn't know how to behave in a cinema ... which did almost lead to a punch up at one point (fortunately I was over the other side of the cinema so head the raised voices but not the annoying babbling ...)

 

[Fubsy]

As I already said, I don't need tones of it but the lead of the movie, Diego's character...his character is explained by "I have been doing this since I am 6 years old!" and his shooting someone in the back.

He is the male lead and that was his entire characterisation, adding a line here or there in the first hour would have helped.

It seems a lot of people here are happy with 1 dimensional characters in this movie, which is surprising to say the least.

Thing is, I like this about his character. I like that he has a bit of mystery surrounding him - you see part of the reason why he does these things in the way he takes the orders from General Draven, he doesn't want to do these things but does it as a means to an end (same way he saves Jyn by killing an ally) - the rebels must win at any cost in his eyes.

 

[Steampunk]

At 2 hours into Rogue One I know as much about them as the soldiers on SPR in the first 20 mins.

So what? Not all stories are written with deep characterisations, and not all need it. You might as well go to a pizza restaurant and complain that their pizzas are nothing like chocolate cake. "But this pizza would be so much better if the dough base was replaced with a thicker, more cakey base, and the tomato and cheese was replace by a different sauce, something more chocolately. Maybe served with ice-cream instead of garlic bread?"

The film is already 2 and a quarter hours long, thirty minutes more of characterisation just would slow it down, make it drag, and turn it into something other than what was intended. Enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't.

 

[Fubsy]

And the question goes back to, that's a good thing?

YES!

Raymond, I think you'll get what you want in the Han Solo/Lando film

 

[Efour]

I agree with Von very closely.

I knew enough about the main characters Jyn, Kassian and EVERYONE else was just there as cannon fodder , i personally fill in all the gaps from my star wars knowledge and love for Star wars, i don't need anymore. This was a movie for well-informed star wars fans. Old men like me. It hits all the right places in that respect.

Compare to Force awakens which is a pseudo reboot for kids and money.

 

[Raymond Lin]

So what? Not all stories are written with deep characterisations, and not all need it. You might as well go to a pizza restaurant and complain that their pizzas are nothing like chocolate cake. "But this pizza would be so much better if the dough base was replaced with a thicker, more cakey base, and the tomato and cheese was replace by a different sauce, something more chocolately. Maybe served with ice-cream instead of garlic bread?"

The film is already 2 and a quarter hours long, thirty minutes more of characterisation just would slow it down, make it drag, and turn it into something other than what was intended. Enjoy it for what it is, not what it isn't.

I've said like 3 times.

I am not after DEEP characterisation, I am merely after characters. What we ended up are cannon fodder as the protagonist, paper thin nobody who died for the cause.

I enjoy Transformer movies for what it is, when I watch Star Wars, the expectations are higher and with good reasons. Surely that is a good thing or are we now setting the bar lower?

I mean you could still have characters and they are cannon fodder can you not? Why lower the standard?

YES!

Raymond, I think you'll get what you want in the Han Solo/Lando film

That's my point, they are the bar and this don't come up to that.

 

[Steampunk]

I mean you could still have characters and they are cannon fodder can you not? Why lower the standard?

That's my point, they are the bar and this don't come up to that.

Who sets the bar? I don't believe the standard is lower, I believe it's a different type of film. You say you "expect more from Star Wars", but this is a different type of Star Wars film, a one-off that is a prequel/sideways story to A New Hope that isn't part of the main characters' storylines. If this was book, it would be a novella covering the intro events to the main novel. It's not meant to be what you seem to think it should be, but that's a different judgement call made by the film makers, and Disney's need to rush a Star Wars movie out to fill the pre-Christmas slot.

 

[stewski]

I've said like 3 times.

I am not after DEEP characterisation, I am merely after characters. What we ended up are cannon fodder as the protagonist, paper thin nobody who died for the cause.

I enjoy Transformer movies for what it is, when I watch Star Wars, the expectations are higher and with good reasons. Surely that is a good thing or are we now setting the bar lower?

I mean you could still have characters and they are cannon fodder can you not? Why lower the standard?



That's my point, they are the bar and this don't come up to that.

Frankly invoking Transformers as a level of characterisation in Rogue One is silly imo.

I found there was very good characterisation through out most of the film, I'd agree there was less fun/comedic characterisation for sure, but suggesting that what was seen was anything like, say the human cast of the first Bay/Transformers movie (I never watched another) really is toys out of pram territory for me.

 

[Begbie]

I wholeheartedly agree with those of you saying that the characters didn't need much developing by design. I don't think it was a mistake at all, I think it was very much on purpose.

For me, Rogue One developed one character - which just happens to be my favourite - more than any other movie has to date, and that is the Star Wars universe itself.

It was about the substance and character of the most well known time in the Star Wars universe, the galactic civil war. No lightsabres or Jedi doing backflips needed, it was telling it how it is for the little people, exactly what they need to focus more on going forward with their videogames IMO. I really hope Rogue One is mega successful so that more money is put in to developing things like the discontinued 1313, and pre-NGE SWG.

The biggest problem I have is with the music, I remember wishing it was better while watching it, and although it's difficult to know for certain before watching it multiple times, I feel that the music will most likely be much less memorable.

Let the SWG dream go Zefan, let it go.