Ronski's Solar & battery DIY build with whole house backup

[Troop]

It lives.

Your balance needs to be turned on, set to balance to 0.003V.(think that's the lowest setting it will take)

Just need the electrician and the sun and you're set.

Good project for sure.

 

[Ron-ski]

I'll go through all the settings later, luckily my phone can still connect to the BMS when I'm sat in the office, which will make things easier, as I can easily look up anything I'm not sure about.

 

[Ron-ski]

Your balance needs to be turned on

Balancing was turned on in the settings, but no point balancing at 3.289v, I have balancing set to start at 3.45v which will be what the cells are charged to, so they will balance during absorption.

Here's what I have this morning, hopefully it all looks correct.

 

[Troop]

The battery is alive!



Just 0.004v cell deviation, not bad considering I took delivery in August and they haven't been balanced or even been charged.

Top right on the your pic, it is showing balance turned off in the menu, go to control, make sure the balance toggle is turned on.
When turned on it will always show as on, but only balance to your chosen setting/config (just means the balance function is enabled)

 

[Mafia_GF]

Hello Ron, your doing so well and its looking good so far, I bet your pleased fella so far.

I been so busy at home and my project - its just surprising how much time this stuff takes up in your life lol. Mine is up and running and works as expected, you know what I have, it needs tweaking in the multiplus.. the Charger and ESS Assistant - I take it your using the ESS as well mate ?

I know you have the ET112 so I am pretty sure you are going to use ESS, ping me back and will run through my issues I had and how to get around and test before you commission it.. it just saves blurring on here as don't want to over-write your project with my stuff Ron.

Also with the JK and the Victron VE.Config Dynamic Voltage Cut-Offs used within the ESS (if your using ESS..). these will need to be tweaked as the Victrons are safe but will trigger far sooner that JK will. The way I understand it is the JK will control the Cells and not the ESS, I am doing some research now on values and then compiling an email for Victron to advise & review my suggestions via my Distributor (this I have per-arranged already.)

Take care, stay safe mate

 

[Ron-ski]

Top right on the your pic, it is showing balance turned off in the menu, go to control, make sure the balance toggle is turned on.
When turned on it will always show as on, but only balance to your chosen setting/config (just means the balance function is enabled)

That is the way it works, it is turned on, but if I change the balance settings so that it will balance then it shows either "Discharging", "Charging" or "Off" depending on what its doing (I can see which cell it is balancing in the list), if the balancing criteria is not met then it will show "Balance: off"

This is the control settings

@Mafia_GF Yes I will be using ESS, be interesting to hear what issues you had and what you did to resolve, either post here or ping me an email.

Precharge fitted, added a neat little volt meter, voltage dropped as I switched the inverter but had turned on the isolator.

 

[Mafia_GF]

I am just about to pop out with the good lady, will post here. Have you got the Cerbo connected to the ET112 via RS485 cable yet Ron ?

Also have you reviewed the Charger/Inverter & Dynamic Cutoff Voltages within the ESS yet mate, be interested to what you have yours setup too.

 

[Troop]

My 3 work differently, always shows the balance enabled but only starts balancing when it hits my set voltage for balance @3.43v

Must be different firmware as you have the heating option on yours.

How all 3 of mine look/work.

 

[Ron-ski]

@Mafia_GF Cerbo is set up, ET112 is connected, just setting up the ESS assistant. Only concern at moment is that it will see the PV production from the SolarEdge system, but it can't see the full picture, as the inverter isn't connected in the mains yet. This is why the VRM (link below) always shows full usage of the solar production at the moment.

@Troop Must just be different firmware, I don't think I specifically bought the heat version, but then the options wasn't straightforward. Not sure if I'll use the heat option or go about it another way. From what I read the BMS doesn't turn the heating on until it reaches the lower cut off temperature, at which point it turns off charging until its heated up tot the recovery temperature. Something I need to look into.

 

[Troop]

@Mafia_GF Cerbo is set up, ET112 is connected, just setting up the ESS assistant. Only concern at moment is that it will see the PV production from the SolarEdge system, but it can't see the full picture, as the inverter isn't connected in the mains yet. This is why the VRM (link below) always shows full usage of the solar production at the moment.

@Troop Must just be different firmware, I don't think I specifically bought the heat version, but then the options wasn't straightforward. Not sure if I'll use the heat option or go about it another way. From what I read the BMS doesn't turn the heating on until it reaches the lower cut off temperature, at which point it turns off charging until its heated up tot the recovery temperature. Something I need to look into.

Just don't let them charge below 0C, being in your Garage you will go below that temp I should imagine.

One important thing to do.....Take a voltage reading from the actual battery output terminals, with a known good and accurate multimeter.
Compare that figure with the reading on the BMS, and change that reading in the BMS to the reading from the actual battery if they are different.
In settings/Calibrate volts.

 

[Ron-ski]

I have the BMS set to not charge below 3c, hopefully the weather will start warming up soon, and then it will give me time to sort out the heating. I do need to go through all settings, double check them.

I currently have two Victron sensors connected to the Cerbo, they currently read 11 (in the garage) and 12c (outside), the BMS reads 9.7 and 9.8, the weather station says its 5.7c, and my infrared gun says the outside Victron sensor is 3.2c

So I need to find a calibrated temperature gauge, and work what the correct value is, I think the Victron sensors are reading too high and the infrared gun too low.

Just realised I've got a temperature probe on my new UT213C meter, I'll have to leave the probe in the garage and see what that reads later.

I checked the voltages earlier, they all look pretty much spot on, just the MPPT read a little higher than the shunt.

BMS 52.42v
MMPT's 52.51v
Lynx Shunt 52.25v

Meters at battery terminals:

UT213C 52.4v
UT70A 52.2v

 

[Mafia_GF]

@Mafia_GF Cerbo is set up, ET112 is connected, just setting up the ESS assistant. Only concern at moment is that it will see the PV production from the SolarEdge system, but it can't see the full picture, as the inverter isn't connected in the mains yet. This is why the VRM (link below) always shows full usage of the solar production at the moment.

@Troop Must just be different firmware, I don't think I specifically bought the heat version, but then the options wasn't straightforward. Not sure if I'll use the heat option or go about it another way. From what I read the BMS doesn't turn the heating on until it reaches the lower cut off temperature, at which point it turns off charging until its heated up tot the recovery temperature. Something I need to look into.

@Ron-ski
Good man, so your Cerbo can see the ET122, this is good as mine could not, I had a faulty cable and Cerbo .. but annoying really but distributor sorted us out pretty quickly. With the setup of your Quatro, don't have anything connected when you set it up, just power it up via AC or DC and the MK3 interface. The Quatro will work out the box just like the Multi.. could not not believe it "Plug & Go.. so speak". I ran some household appliances and was happy as a kid in a sweet shop - by default has a VS setup and will charge from the DNO/GRID automatically.

When you load the ESS Assistant you will see what I am on about, hoping I will get some feedback from Victron but check out the section on Approved Battery's on Victrons website. There are so many questionable settings when using the BMS, I think the way forward is to use what has been setup on the JK, then transpose these into the ESS.. anyway I await what Victron say but have a good idea what they will come back with.


@Troop, yes I fell for the battery Voltage one and not measuing and entring the true pack voltage. Could not understand what was going on untill I just stepped away and re-looked at it, but all good now. Yes Garage does get cold, have a dual temp controller that will monitor and control both shelves, only have one at the moment but based on what I have seen so far I will for sure get another 48V setup mid towards end of the end year.

 

[Ron-ski]

There are so many questionable settings when using the BMS, I think the way forward to to use what has been setup on the JK, then transpose these into the ESS.

This is my thinking to, the BMS controls when the battery is shut off etc, so the settings in the rest of the system has to be based on those.

I'm wondering how the cut off settings in the ESS work, presumably it will turn off the DC side, but still pass through the grid if these conditions are met.

I'm putting a spreadsheet of all the settings together, then I can easily look up and see what needs matching up.

PS. Be interesting to hear what Victron come back with.

 

[Mafia_GF]

This is my thinking to, the BMS controls when the battery is shut off etc, so the settings in the rest of the system has to be based on those.

I'm wondering how the cut off settings in the ESS work, presumably it will turn off the DC side, but still pass through the grid if these conditions are met.

I'm putting a spreadsheet of all the settings together, then I can easily look up and see what needs matching up.

PS. Be interesting to hear what Victron come back with.

Exactly, if you look at the Pylontech they setup these in the ESS (and including Other Battery Brands as well..) basically I read on the Victron Forum as well just to Flat-Curve the Charge curve in the Dynamic Cutoff Voltages and basically let the BMS do the work. I will post below a snapshot from Pylontech.

Wifey was doing the Dinner last night, so had 1 or 2 hob's induction rings on, plus the Microwave and the Kettle. I looked at the VRM portal and I could see it spike up quite high on the load.. what happened was and based on the Cutoff Voltages etc... then the Multi stopped inverting (Battery was about 55% @ about 52/53V.. cannot remember exactly... but with the high load the voltage would drop while supplying the current). At this stage then the DNO/Grid supply was used untill I modified the Cutoff Voltages - so yes it will turn off the DC Only, this is my understanding as well.

What you can do, download VE.Config then go to the VRM Portal.. then to Devices and then you can Download the config off the Quatro/Multi and amend it off-line with VE.Config and then Upload this.. I did this and changed the 0.005C & 0.25C by 1V.. not much.. WELL all kicked back in and I watched the Inverter do it's stuff.. I also saw how much current was been drained from the battery ( I also have a Monitor on the JK BMS as well but mine is the 4" version).. Current discharge started around 20A and then slowly started to rise up to about 85A.. you should have heard the hum from the transformer .. beautiful.... it then all dropped down to about 45A afterwards.. but not long after..

This is why I started to review the settings and really ask the question.. do we really need to have the ESS setup this way as the way I see it.. if your battery pack is managed by the BMS and is roughly/about 53V @ about 50% then with these settings in the ESS and with a sudden load then the inverter will stop inverting ... it won't power down it will just stop inverting as I saw last night.



Snapshot From Victron with ref to Pylontech:
==================================

5.2 Charge Settings​

Charger tab​

Parameter	Setting
Battery type	Lithium
Charge curve	Fixed
Absorption voltage	52.0 V
Float voltage	51.0 V
Absorption time	1 Hr

Note: make sure to double check the float voltage after completing Assistants, and if necessary set it back to 51.0 V.
Note For off-grid use: ignore the 'bms assistant required' warning.

5.3 Inverter Settings​

In the Inverter tab of VEConfigure

VEConfigure Inverter Parameter	Setting
DC input low shut-down	44V
DC input low restart	48V
DC input low pre-alarm*	48V

* The pre-alarm setting is dependant on your preference and on site specific requirements. You may wish for this to be activated earlier in an off grid situation to allow time to start a backup generator.

ESS System Settings​

If you are using the battery as part of a grid connected ESS system, please review the ESS Quickstart guide and Design and Installation Manual.
The settings that are specific to the Pylontech battery in the VEConfigure ESS Assistant are below:
Select the externally managed Lithium battery option

ESS Parameter	Settings
Sustain voltage.	48V
Dynamic cut-off values	set all values to 46V.
Restart offset:	1.2V (Default)

 

[Ron-ski]

Thanks for the info, I'll have a read later, and digest.

 

[Ron-ski]

News Flash

Electrician is booked for 21 & 22 of this month, so that gives me two weekends to get things ready, don't think there is much actually left to do.

 

[Ron-ski]

What you can do, download VE.Config then go to the VRM Portal.. then to Devices and then you can Download the config off the Quatro/Multi and amend it off-line with VE.Config and then Upload this.. I did this and changed the 0.005C & 0.25C by 1V.. not much..

I can connect to the inverter and download the config file, which I can then open in Victron Connect. But not sure how to do this with VE Configure 3, where the ESS assistant is setup - I can do this whilst connected to the inverter directly, but can it be done offline?

What's the 0.005C & 0.25C your refer to?

 

[Mafia_GF]

Within VRM, you can use "Remote VEConfig" - with this you can Download (.. really uploading the cfg to YOU..), it will save it to your Hard drive somewhere.

Since you already have VEConfig already Ron, just double click this file and it will open with VEConfig, you can them view/amend etc.., save and then upload BACK to the Quatro remotely - clever stuff and well impressive...

For the C values above, these refer to (how I interpret them) as discharge and current drain from the battery with relative to the discharge / cuttoff curve. As you look at each value "Say for example 0.005C & 280AHr Battery", it says if you draw 0.005 x 280 = 1.4A and using the default value of 52.00V and then if the battery drops to 52V or below then you would get an alarm and the DC side would disconnect until the battery voltage would rise above by 1.2V (default value).

This is what happened to me few days back, under heavy current drain and my battery was about 50%.. then with the oven and some other appliances must have been around the 0.25C (or thereabouts..) and the DC side was cutoff untill I made some changes.. it would have recovered by itself but I was keen to see what was happening.

And now with "for example.. Pylontech..", they have flattened this curve and they use their BMS to manage the battery charging curve.

Does this make sense as its quite a minefield really, since I made some small changes its been ok now but I would like to sort them out better etc..

 

[Ron-ski]

@Mafia_GF yes makes sense, just need to find that download option. I'll take another look tonight, thanks.

 

[Mafia_GF]

@Mafia_GF yes makes sense, just need to find that download option. I'll take another look tonight, thanks.

From VRM --> Device List:

select <Remote VEConfigure>

it then will show Two Options:

Download - Pull CFG to you
Upload - Push CFG to Multiplus