'Russia is seriously running out of cash'

[Caracus2k]

I'm all up to bashing Russia but your second statement is just incorrect and ignorant.

If it wasnt for Soviets, WW2 would be lost in Europe. Study battle of France that lasted pathetic sligtly over a month.

There is no way in hell that Allies stood any chance without Soviets in Europe. At best UK would be defended miracolously from Invasion. Counter offensive would be impossible, we wouldnt be able to ship so much armour and personel across water and land them to fight Germans. Imagine a million of German soldiers that were in Stalingrad stationed accross Coast. With battle armour amount of Kursk battle along with them.

I think a rational assessment of ww2 was that the Soviets would probably have folded without Allied assistance earlier in the war (provision of materials/equipment and the mass bombing of German industry diverting Axis manpower and resources from the Eastern Front) and that subsequently the Allies would have had a much trickier job retaking France/ the low countries etc without the Soviets bleeding the Axis powers dry on the Eastern front?

and old article but one that suggests that the victors in WW2 perhaps owed more thanks to each other then they would like to admit

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4508901.stm

and British supplied tanks made up 30-40% of the medium and heavy tanks available for the defense of Moscow in December 1941 amongst other contributions

Had the UK sued for peace with the Axis powers in 1940 effectively closing down the western front then the outcome on the Eastern Front could have been very different for the Soviets. Likewise if Hitler had resisted the urge to push east after the partition of Poland and kept to his side of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact then retaking western Europe would probably have been nigh on impossible and the Axis powers may have even been able to launch a successful offensive against the UK

 

[gustavski]

the Axis powers may have even been able to launch a successful offensive against the UK

May have!! The Brits would have been defeated in less than three months

gus

 

[Roar87]

the Axis powers may have even been able to launch a successful offensive against the UK

May have!! The Brits would have been defeated in less than three months

gus

Hitler actually didn't ever seriously consider invading the UK so it's a mute point. I don't think he wanted to be at war with us frankly

 

[Rroff]

Hitler actually didn't ever seriously consider invading the UK so it's a mute point. I don't think he wanted to be at war with us frankly

I think it is more that he thought once the UK saw the results of what Germany was doing we'd want to be part of it.

 

[Rilot]

I think it is more that he thought once the UK saw the results of what Germany was doing we'd want to be part of it.

Hitler always felt that the UK was Germany's natural ally. This was never going to happen though because Germany and Britain had diametrically opposed views on their policy towards Europe. Britain's policy was to maintain peace at any cost because we knew that a major conflict would probably bankrupt us and lead to the collapse of our empire. Germany wanted to shake up the balance of power throughout Europe and was quite happy to go to war to do it.

 

[RaohNS]

Hitler actually didn't ever seriously consider invading the UK so it's a mute point. I don't think he wanted to be at war with us frankly

He didn't. Equally when Nazi Germany was being beaten they did repeatedly ask for peace but it was rejected (hence Churchill constantly saying the only accepted thing he would take was total unconditional surrender). Evil also had the chance to wipe out a huge swathe of the two largest colonial powers at Dunkirk... But aside from some operations chose not to.

This is a sad part of history that is very often shrouded in so much emotion and deceit to a large extent. Some history is ignored or forbidden to be questioned (and before anyone says anything I am not talking about the Hopocaust (as someone who has a part Jewish gf and child by extension plus my granddad was a slave for the Germans), the difference is I can separate emotional points with objective events.

I'll still never forget reading something (on my fave place the BBC incidentally) about Hitler that was just total and utter bs something that anybody can verify. There's trying to make it simple for a ten year old and then there's lying.

 

[RaohNS]

Hitler always felt that the UK was Germany's natural ally. This was never going to happen though because Germany and Britain had diametrically opposed views on their policy towards Europe. Britain's policy was to maintain peace at any cost because we knew that a major conflict would probably bankrupt us and lead to the collapse of our empire. Germany wanted to shake up the balance of power throughout Europe and was quite happy to go to war to do it.

True, we also were the only nation that disagreed with Versailles - and were proven right. The biggest frumble was the amount of reparations to be paid. The problem I believe was the people of Germany were the ones suffering the most, the wealthy were still quite untouched.

 

[chanjy]

Love a good OcUK discussion that never once strays from the topic

 

[Edrof]

I came in to check on Russia's bank balance and I'm greeted with Hitler and a roast dinner...

 

[gustavski]

Enjoy the roast dinner.
I have already explained. Russia's finances are in the doldrums trying to match Nato's
aggression in the Baltics.
Maybe the West are trying the same tactics they used during the Cold War.

gus

 

[Rroff]

I came in to check on Russia's bank balance and I'm greeted with Hitler and a roast dinner...

In Russia bank balance checks you.

Enjoy the roast dinner.
I have already explained. Russia's finances are in the doldrums trying to match Nato's
aggression in the Baltics.
Maybe the West are trying the same tactics they used during the Cold War.

gus

Gonna need a bit more than games in the Baltics and Syria, etc. to seriously impact on Russia's economy alone. It is one thing that is often overlooked when people compare the numbers - in the last 3-5 years Russia has been getting 2-3x as much for its military expenditure compared to the US or NATO in general.

 

[Rroff]

Reading the news today its like the cold war is back with a vengeance - Russia claiming to be considering reopening bases in Cuba, etc. threatening to shoot down NATO aircraft, increasing its long range bomber patrols, etc.

 

[wildman]

Reading the news today its like the cold war is back with a vengeance - Russia claiming to be considering reopening bases in Cuba, etc. threatening to shoot down NATO aircraft, increasing its long range bomber patrols, etc.

only difference being it won't be cold as Putin will likely see through those threats to shoot down NATO aircraft if they even so much as enter 1mm into his airspace due to a northerly gale.

 

[SkScotchegg]

only difference being it won't be cold as Putin will likely see through those threats to shoot down NATO aircraft if they even so much as enter 1mm into his airspace due to a northerly gale.

And then what happens?

 

[Sliver]

And then what happens?

Nothing no doubt. Turkey shot down a Russian jet earlier this year and nothing came of that.

 

[stopper]

Nothing no doubt. Turkey shot down a Russian jet earlier this year and nothing came of that.

Yeam, they saw through their attempt to start a full proxy war.
Doubt they will let it go next time though.

 

[jsmoke]

only difference being it won't be cold as Putin will likely see through those threats to shoot down NATO aircraft if they even so much as enter 1mm into his airspace due to a northerly gale.

How much do you think the average man on the street realises we could be on the brink of a nuclear war?

 

[Rroff]

How much do you think the average man on the street realises we could be on the brink of a nuclear war?

Most people are going around indifferent to it IMO - when in reality we probably should be sticking the old Doomsday clock at 11:59.

 

[Tefal]

How much do you think the average man on the street realises we could be on the brink of a nuclear war?

we're not.

unless you're a crack smoking paranoid loon.

 

[Rroff]

we're not.

unless you're a crack smoking paranoid loon.

While extremely unlikely - I'd say we are actually at the closest point we have ever been in the last 50 years. While largely a game of brinkmanship there is a fair amount of potential there for things to escalate/go wrong.