Russian airliner missing over Egypt

Guest2 · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:37

likely broke up in mid-air

What sort of plane in this day and age just breaks up mid air? Was the plane from the 20s or something?

Boycey0211 · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:40

Guest2 said:
What sort of plane in this day and age just breaks up mid air? Was the plane from the 20s or something?

Theres quite a lot of different forces acting on sometimes not a great deal of metal though, and remember this is a plane that has gone everywhere at 500mph and 30 odd thousand feet for around fifty thousand hours.

Theyre designed not to of course, but **** happens unfortunately.

RoboCod · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:41

Guest2 said:
What sort of plane in this day and age just breaks up mid air? Was the plane from the 20s or something?

A plane can quite easily break up if it is exerted under extreme forces. i.e. dive too fast and the wings can buckle and bend. Roll a giant aircraft and it's no doubt going to damage it, the wings quite literally can fall off. It's not like the movies.

[TW]Fox · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:44

RoboCod said:
the wings quite literally can fall off.

What?

Curio · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:46

Guest2 said:
What sort of plane in this day and age just breaks up mid air? Was the plane from the 20s or something?

? Planes aren't designed to withstand a bomb or some other form of explosive decompression at 32,000 ft.

lafemmefatale · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:47

Guest2 said:
What sort of plane in this day and age just breaks up mid air? Was the plane from the 20s or something?

There's been more than enough in the last 30 years alone. JAL123 being the most deadly and probably most famous due to the release of the CVR. (If you really want to listen to it, it's on Youtube but I'd recommend discretion, you're listening to over 500 people die.)

Planes are pressure vessels and any weakness, no matter how microscopic, if not picked up and repaired properly will eventually lead to a failure with repeated cycles of pressurisation.

The fact this particular aircraft suffered a tailstrike on landing years ago, coupled with reports of flight crew complaining about shoddy maintenance puts a rear pressure bulkhead failure just as much in the running speculation-wise as a bomb or other such nefarious act.

Glaucus · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:49

Guest2 said:
What sort of plane in this day and age just breaks up mid air? Was the plane from the 20s or something?

Ones that are previously damaged especially in rear bulk head, which has happened before. And didn't this plane have damage there.

My armchair hat says rubbish repair job.

lafemmefatale · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:52

Glaucus said:
Ones that are previously damaged especially in rear bulk head, which has happened before. And didn't this plane have damage there.

My armchair hat says rubbish repair job.

It spent many months in the shop after a hard tailstrike on landing. Landing tailstrikes are generally much more stressful on the airframe than TO tailstrikes, which is usually a relatively gentle scrape more than one big impact.

OhEsEcks · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:54

RoboCod said:
A plane can quite easily break up if it is exerted under extreme forces. i.e. dive too fast and the wings can buckle and bend. Roll a giant aircraft and it's no doubt going to damage it, the wings quite literally can fall off. It's not like the movies.

Tex Johnston famously rolled a 707 during testing.

RoboCod · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:56

OhEsEcks said:
Tex Johnston famously rolled a 707 during testing.

Yes, a dangerous stunt. What's your point?

lafemmefatale · 2 Nov 2015 at 19:58

OhEsEcks said:
Tex Johnston famously rolled a 707 during testing.

A barrel-roll, mind. Even a quite slippery commercial airliner can't sustain inverted flight. Lift vectors, and all that.

Wasn't there a 747-400 that rolled past 70 degrees during testing too? IIRC that wasn't intentional though.

Em3bbs · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:03

[TW]Fox;28761390 said:
What?

Every mechanical component has a limit. Here is an example of a rear stabiliser coming off thanks to pilot error alone. No one survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587

[TW]Fox · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:07

Em3bbs said:
Every mechanical component has a limit. Here is an example of a rear stabiliser coming off thanks to pilot error alone. No one survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587

It hit the ground with both wings still fitted so no idea what relevance that has to a comment addressed at his claims that wings can just 'fall off'.

Em3bbs · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:09

[TW]Fox;28761480 said:
It hit the ground with both wings still fitted so no idea what relevance that has to a comment addressed at his claims that wings can just 'fall off'.

He said, and I quote "A plane can quite easily break up if it is exerted under extreme forces". There is an example right there m8.

Boycey0211 · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:09

[TW]Fox;28761480 said:
It hit the ground with both wings still fitted so no idea what relevance that has to a comment addressed at his claims that wings can just 'fall off'.

Think he was merely referring to the fact that mechanical faults do happen, a bit of an extreme example obviously

Working in aviation I've seen first hand stuff just 'falling off', stuff gets old and while we've got non destructive testing to check for these things, you cant cover everything.

Glaucus · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:11

[TW]Fox;28761480 said:
It hit the ground with both wings still fitted so no idea what relevance that has to a comment addressed at his claims that wings can just 'fall off'.

[TW]Fox · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:13

Em3bbs said:
He said, and I quote "A plane can quite easily break up if it is exerted under extreme forces". There is an example right there m8.

I specifically quoted the part of his post I was replying to - that is the purpose of the quote function.

I'm aware of the fact a plane can break up under extreme force, which is why it wasn't included in the part of his post I quoted. I was referring specifically to his comment about wings falling off. It is exceptionally rare on a passenger jet due to the way the structure of the plane is designed and the forces they are designed to tolerate.

Guest2 · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:16

RoboCod said:
A plane can quite easily break up if it is exerted under extreme forces. i.e. dive too fast and the wings can buckle and bend. Roll a giant aircraft and it's no doubt going to damage it, the wings quite literally can fall off. It's not like the movies.

Why the hell would the pilot try and roll a passenger plane :eek:

Its not like he was in a jet!

My guess is that it was probably a pretty old beat up Russian plane.

My dad went a Russian plane (duploff ?SP) in the late 80s / early 90s and he said he thought it was going to break up - panels inside shaking all over, leaking on his mates head the whole journey, stick of celery for dinner etc.

Malevolence · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:22

You ain't experienced aviation in Russia until you've flown in an AN-2 that was more repairs than aircraft with a pilot whose breath smelled like he'd secretly been drinking the fuel.

Guest2 · 2 Nov 2015 at 20:59

Malevolence said:
You ain't experienced aviation in Russia until you've flown in an AN-2 that was more repairs than aircraft with a pilot whose breath smelled like he'd secretly been drinking the fuel.