well I've not disputed that they're using it as an excuse - that was the whole point... it was a deliberate play on the part of Turkey... what I'm disputing is your argument that it was obviously self defence...
Russian SU-24 - Shot Down by Turkey
- Thread starter Korsun
- Start date
well I've not disputed that they're using it as an excuse - that was the whole point... it was a deliberate play on the part of Turkey... what I'm disputing is your argument that it was obviously self defence...
Not as I understand it. Jets moving at 300+ mph don't take long to get anywhere. Time from that border to the nearest nice target? Probably less than 2 minutes.
The border isn't where you want your air defence to start - it's just where you're allowed to start responding.
If you all stop bickering about sod all then the context is.
Two Russian unarmed bombers flew over Turkey for 17 seconds!
Its sod all and Turkey are lying, they are fast planes even at sea level they can do over mach 1.
That plane was around for seconds and they blasted it out the sky.
You don't **** with the Russians period. Fingers crossed all will be worked out.
To all the retards wanting WW3, get back to COD, Battlefield and WOW.
Two Russian unarmed bombers flew over Turkey for 17 seconds!
Its sod all and Turkey are lying, they are fast planes even at sea level they can do over mach 1.
That plane was around for seconds and they blasted it out the sky.
You don't **** with the Russians period. Fingers crossed all will be worked out.
To all the retards wanting WW3, get back to COD, Battlefield and WOW.
Two Russian unarmed bombers flew over Turkey for 17 seconds!
Still completely unconfirmed
If you all stop bickering about sod all then the context is.
Two Russian unarmed bombers flew over Turkey for 17 seconds!
Its sod all and Turkey are lying, they are fast planes even at sea level they can do over mach 1.
That plane was around for seconds and they blasted it out the sky.
You don't **** with the Russians period. Fingers crossed all will be worked out.
To all the retards wanting WW3, get back to COD, Battlefield and WOW.
What I can see happening though is this ****ing coalition attempt at intervening.
If asad and Russia put up a no fly zone except for Syrian and Russian jets no one's gonna violate it.
And they've now got hard video evidence of American backed soldiers blowing up and killing a Russian search and rescue crew.
So they can try to push through more restrictions on the west supplying arms to the fsa and openly attack them when they are supplied.
Turkey have kind of handed Russia a win in terms of giving them the diplomatic and public opinion to really back assad and turn the tide in the civil war.
Still completely unconfirmed
Even if fully armed 17 seconds, I pee longer than that.
Also considering the is sod all on the land they flew over.
They basically flew over Snowdonia.
Looking at the Russian generals video and statement, something is very wrong.
If I was Turkey, I would be sweating like one on Christmas eve.
Associate
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I'm still at a loss. If we assume the reports are right.....A heavily armed Russian aircraft enters another (Turkish) countries airspace after being told to avoid it (and after multiple Russian incursions into Turkish airspace over several months) , it gets shot dow (after several ATC calls to get the fudge out of Turrkish airspace), and this is a surprise. i've read all your comments, I've tired to see the other side of this, but I don't understand the issue there. So i give up.
Just a few observations and rules to help those of you who still believe Turkey's in the wrong, return to the correct way of thinking:
1. ISIS oil tankers can cross into and spend unlimited time in Turkey and their drivers get 45 minute warnings by the US whenever they feel ****ed to take some out, but Russian jets will get shot down for (allegedly) being in Turkish airspace 17 seconds.
2. There's "no IS in that region" - just kind people who shoot at parachutists, chant Allahu Akbar around their corpses, and wage terrorism on the Syrian government's forces and Syrian people.
3. "Moderate rebels" can and will receive and use TOWs from the US to shoot Russian rescue helicopters on the ground in "self-defence".
4. IS are whoever the US say they are and aren't whoever they say they aren't, as and when it suits them. Remember, facts and talking and walking like a duck aren't important anymore because reality is whatever the US State Dept etc says it is. They create reality. You must do better to keep up with it.
5. Erdogan said only three years ago that a short-term border incursion can "never" be an excuse for attacking but it's different when it comes to their own airspace. It just is. Because.
1. ISIS oil tankers can cross into and spend unlimited time in Turkey and their drivers get 45 minute warnings by the US whenever they feel ****ed to take some out, but Russian jets will get shot down for (allegedly) being in Turkish airspace 17 seconds.
2. There's "no IS in that region" - just kind people who shoot at parachutists, chant Allahu Akbar around their corpses, and wage terrorism on the Syrian government's forces and Syrian people.
3. "Moderate rebels" can and will receive and use TOWs from the US to shoot Russian rescue helicopters on the ground in "self-defence".
4. IS are whoever the US say they are and aren't whoever they say they aren't, as and when it suits them. Remember, facts and talking and walking like a duck aren't important anymore because reality is whatever the US State Dept etc says it is. They create reality. You must do better to keep up with it.
5. Erdogan said only three years ago that a short-term border incursion can "never" be an excuse for attacking but it's different when it comes to their own airspace. It just is. Because.
Soldato
Wonder what will happen if Russia shoot down one of Turkeys planes. i think there is a strong possibility it will happen.
My personal belief at the moment is, we are seeing a Muslim uprising from hard line factions within Turkey and its army personnel. In fact all of the middle east is ****ed at the moment.
They are in NATO which makes me shiver with fear.
An unarmed bomber? They are designed to be armed, that's the point. Even if it was devoid of weapons, how was Turkey supposed to know this? Saying it was unarmed is a rather moot point.
Commissario
And how long does it take a bomber to drop it's bombs?Even if fully armed 17 seconds, I pee longer than that.
When operating near a boarder or anywhere* you listen out for ATC and military instructions.
It doesn't matter if it's military or a private pilot out for a play in a Cesna, you listen for instructions from ATC and you do not ignore instructions from the military.
Given this game of cat and mouse with the Russian aircraft and the Turkish border has been going on for months you'd have thought that the Russians would have been aware of the frequencies Turkey use to warn them and be listening.
*With a few exceptions.
If I was you I would check time, speed and distance.
You talking less then 35 seconds approach to incursion and 15-17 seconds incursion.
50 seconds to hail entering Turkish territory 10 times.
They were locked and loaded fact, its all too fast. Reason? I don't know but its a worrying thing that's for sure.
Soldato
also quoting e-goat as an RAF quote is akin to using any comment from here as UK foreign policy.
Majority of RAF don't use that site as its a joke.
Shivering with fear at turkey being in NATO?
We used turkish airbases as a staging point for op northern watch in Iraq since gulf war 1.
We used them to support op telic and herrick in more recent years in a logistics role.
I'd be expanding your understanding of NATO before worrying itchy tbh.
Majority of RAF don't use that site as its a joke.
Shivering with fear at turkey being in NATO?
We used turkish airbases as a staging point for op northern watch in Iraq since gulf war 1.
We used them to support op telic and herrick in more recent years in a logistics role.
I'd be expanding your understanding of NATO before worrying itchy tbh.
I'm kind of surprised it lasted this long without a significant someone shooting down someone.
If I was you I would check time, speed and distance.
You talking less then 35 seconds approach to incursion and 15-17 seconds incursion.
50 seconds to hail entering Turkish territory 10 times.
They were locked and loaded fact, its all too fast. Reason? I don't know but its a worrying thing that's for sure.
like I said before - virtually all Russian jets in that areas, by the border, where they're bombing the rebels backed by Turkey, will be getting repeated warnings from the Turkish Air Force... Turkey really really doesn't like what they're doing there. The one jet that may or may not have skimmed a tiny strip of Turkish territory that actually sticks out into Syria merely gave them an excuse at best.
If you check Google earth, the is sod all there nothing at all just a mountain and a road. What is the logic of bombing the top of a mountain/hill.
Also why would Russia bomb a member of NATO?
I blame the Turks on this one, as trust is not something they value.
If I was you I would check time, speed and distance.
You talking less then 35 seconds approach to incursion and 15-17 seconds incursion.
50 seconds to hail entering Turkish territory 10 times.
They were locked and loaded fact, its all too fast. Reason? I don't know but its a worrying thing that's for sure.
Both Turkish and Russian radar images show the jet near the border covering a distance that would take many minutes to cover, not 35 seconds. It is very possible they gave 10 warnings.
So when they come over here, we shouldn't bother sending jets up?
We don't shoot them down though, just wait until they start flying their strategics near the border fully laden.