Russian SU-24 - Shot Down by Turkey

since I work twilights / nights I cant sit on this forum constantly:

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Diddums said:
Are they though? I make no claim to knowing anything about airspace and restrictions but would it not be possible that an aircraft could be outside our airspace and still be seen from Cornwall?
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The woman claimed it was over the mainland and in a valley, she was also on a driving lesson and said the aircraft was black and looked odd.

She has no idea what she was looking at basically.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...mber-flew-inland-cornwall-uk-airspace-witness

What i find amazing, other than the impression she gives of being totally thick, is with everyone having a smart phone why did no-one take a photo? Oh and the fact that all Bear bombers are silver?
 
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Firestar_3x said:
In the SU-24 example, when you border a country which is an active warzone, ANYTHING which comes into your Sovereign airspace you shoot down, simple as, if they don't respond you have no idea what that aircraft intends to do.

So lets say you don't shoot it down, how far do you let things go, should Turkey be allowing Russia to fly over Istanbul, is that acceptable now?

Even when not at war it has been shown that the RAF are more than willing to shoot down an unidentified aircraft, and rightfully so.

Russia is trying to play games with the rules and they have finally being called out and paid the price.
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According to Russia it was the Turkish F-16 that crossed into Syrian airspace. Our personal opinions on whom to believe are pretty much irrelevant. For all we know, they both crossed into each other's airspace, or neither of them did.

What's relevant is that the Russian high command believe that Turkey knew the plane was no threat and that the F-16 was guilty of the very same act that Turkey felt required shooting down a Russian SU-24, and so will act accordingly. It has announced the positioning of an anti-air cruiser off the coast, as well as fighter escorts on all bombing missions from now on, and warned that they will destroy any aircraft threatening Russian forces. What this effectively means is that if you are a Turkish pilot sending a warning to a Russian aircraft still within Syrian airspace, you will now be viewed as an immediate threat and taken down. All Russian-Turkish military communication channels have been closed.

Whilst Turkey has been making accusations of Russian incursions, Russia has been denying them. If Russia is confident that the Turks have been lying about these incursions, then it makes it even worse in their eyes, because it will look as if they have been laying a foundation (for the lie/excuse) to eventually shoot a Russian plane down, and to be able to claim (as they now have) that it would have happened earlier "had we (the Turks) not been so 'cool-headed' (which as most of us know - is not something that goes hand-in-hand with Turks. The cool-headed Turks there are, are very much repressed by the hot-heads and always have been)".

National security (let alone world peace) is not the foremost thing on one's mind when one shoots down a Russian fighter jet for a 17 second incursion with course always set for promptly exiting Turkish airspace. As for the "unidentified" claim - few will be able to make themselves believe that. Why has Turkey been complaining about Russian incursions if they can never identify them?

The bigger picture - how Turkey has been assisting and enabling IS all along, both for profit (of some) and for Erdogan's hatred of Assad (and the Syria-Iran alliance) which overrides any concerns for the humanitarian disaster caused by the instability, is vital to get a clue of why this really happened. It is acting like a spoilt child now that some fellow NATO members are making noises about Assad remaining in power longer than planned. The Turkish leadership is not aboard with that plan and is being dragged along kicking and screaming. It doesn't want Russia there because it has less leverage with them than it does with the US, when it comes to squeezing in their own demands.
 
Firestar_3x said:
The woman claimed it was over the mainland and in a valley, she was also on a driving lesson and said the aircraft was black and looked odd.

She has no idea what she was looking at basically.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...mber-flew-inland-cornwall-uk-airspace-witness

What i find amazing, other than the impression she gives of being totally thick, is with everyone having a smart phone why did no-one take a photo? Oh and the fact that all Bear bombers are silver?
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Right, gotcha. I hadn't actually read the article, just went by what I'd heard here and elsewhere. I can understand a woman on a driving lesson not being able to identify a Bear but for anyone with even a remote interest in aircraft it would probably have raised an eyebrow at the very least, they're hardly inconspicuous aircraft.
 
Nelly said:
So the Syrian Turkmen broke the Geneva Convention, by gunning down the pilot who was parachuting, I bet nothing is even done about that.
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If they're classed as Syrians then yes if they're classed as Turks then no.

Although I think seeing as it happened over Syria then it's yes regardless of nationality.
 
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