Russian SU-24 - Shot Down by Turkey

Mr Jack · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:47

dacads said:
Bye Bye Turkey

Oh, for goodness sake. Russia is not going to start a war with Turkey - a NATO member - over a jetplane being shot down. It's a problem for the region and for the diplomatic relations between some key countries but it's not going to kick off a war.

Mynight · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:48

Cyanide said:
Could you not sense the sarcasm in my post?

Can't see how Russia can complain about this given the Ukraine situation. I feel bad for the pilot but this is like political karma for Russia.

Ergh fail

. I should go back to bed

.

XeNoN89 · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:48

neoboy said:
Wonder if they manage to recover the black box from the Russian warplane seeing how the pilots landed into the hands of people who were very happy about their deaths.

Military aircraft don't have black boxes afaik

Rofflay · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:51

Mr Jack said:
Oh, for goodness sake. Russia is not going to start a war with Turkey - a NATO member - over a jetplane being shot down. It's a problem for the region and for the diplomatic relations between some key countries but it's not going to kick off a war.

Yup but Putin is going to bomb the Turkmen into oblivion now. Make sure that the next time they fly close to the border they do so with scout aircraft only and use the carrier that is incoming to the Latkia region instead to do the pounding.

I would have that carrier pounding those mountains and the Turkmen 24/7 for weeks. There is not a thing stupid Turkey can do because they are not legally invited to the Jihadi bbq in Syria. Dumb Turkey.

Winky_The_Winking_Turtle · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:54

remove kebab

oh, wait.

Cyanide · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:55

Rofflay said:
Yup but Putin is going to bomb the Turkmen into oblivion now. Make sure that the next time they fly close to the border they do so with scout aircraft only and use the carrier that is incoming to the Latkia region instead to do the pounding.

I would have that carrier pounding those mountains and the Turkmen 24/7 for weeks. There is not a thing stupid Turkey can do because they are not legally invited to the Jihadi bbq in Syria. Dumb Turkey.

Russia invaded Ukraine for the same thing, Turkey wouldn't be particularly impressed if Russia started deliberately bombing Turkmen in Syria.

Cosimo · 24 Nov 2015 at 13:56

Over Clocker said:
At the very least, if a Russian warplane strayed into actual UK airspace, after repeated warnings, warning shots would be fired.

Yes, Turkey SHOULD have fired off some warning shots from the plane's cannon first, but they shot it down. Either way, time will tell who was at fault here.

No point as the Russian warplane would have known that it was 'locked on" and could have taken action to turn out of Turkish airspace. They know what they are doing and know the risks.

Cosimo · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:04

Lol Putin:

Mr Putin ended his speech by suggesting Turkey wanted Nato "to serve" IS. He earlier described the Turks as "accomplices of terrorists".

Instead of contacting us, Turkey went to its partners in Nato to discuss this incident. As if it was us who downed a Turkish plane, and not vice versa. What? They want to make Nato serve IS?"

Poor dear, now he knows what it's like to be on the receiving end of some **** for a change.

Danny75 · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:12

Rofflay said:
Yup but Putin is going to bomb the Turkmen into oblivion now.

Especially after seeing those Turkmen fighters celebrating around the corpse of the pilot or co-pilot, after shooting him dead (according to their commander). A capture and an arranged handover would likely have gone a long way towards pacifying the situation. After all, where is the "threat" from two downed pilots after their plane was shot down? But it's been a double whammy and to the Russians there will now be no difference between the Turkmen and ISIS, if there ever was. Turkish fighter jets should stay away from the border for a good while too, as this incident is sure to change Turkey's "friendly aircraft" status vis-a-vis the Russians. I think Putin's statement about being stabbed in the back by associates of terror makes that very clear.

Rroff · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:17

Danny75 said:
Especially after seeing those Turkmen fighters celebrating around the corpse of the pilot or co-pilot, after shooting him dead (according to their commander). A capture and an arranged handover would likely have gone a long way towards pacifying the situation. After all, where is the "threat" from two downed pilots after their plane was shot down? But it's been a double whammy and to the Russians there will now be no difference between the Turkmen and ISIS, if there ever was. Turkish fighter jets should stay away from the border for a good while too, as this incident is sure to change Turkey's "friendly aircraft" status vis-a-vis the Russians. I think Putin's statement about being stabbed in the back by associates of terror makes that very clear.

Yeah can't see Putin taking it lying down now.

Freddie1980 · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:18

Good, I'm pleased this is karma for *******s. Russia has been bullying it's neighbors for years and now a national state has turned around and given Russia a slap in the face not that one down plane makes up for all the pain and misery Russia has inflicted on Georgia and Ukraine in recent years but at the very least Russia won't be so arrogant to think it can fly military aircraft across national boarders without reprisals.

Nelly · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:21

So according to Turkey, it was around 12 miles for the flight path across the border, what speed would the SU-24 be going at? Even at 500mph it would only take 24 seconds to get out of the incursion area.

Schlong&Stable · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:23

Danny75 said:
Especially after seeing those Turkmen fighters celebrating around the corpse of the pilot or co-pilot, after shooting him dead (according to their commander). A capture and an arranged handover would likely have gone a long way towards pacifying the situation. After all, where is the "threat" from two downed pilots after their plane was shot down? But it's been a double whammy and to the Russians there will now be no difference between the Turkmen and ISIS, if there ever was. Turkish fighter jets should stay away from the border for a good while too, as this incident is sure to change Turkey's "friendly aircraft" status vis-a-vis the Russians. I think Putin's statement about being stabbed in the back by associates of terror makes that very clear.

The Russian pilots are bombing them. I think their response is quite reasonable.

Rroff · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:24

Nelly said:
So according to Turkey, it was around 12 miles for the flight path across the border, what speed would the SU-24 be going at? Even at 500mph it would only take 24 seconds to get out of the incursion area.

Depends what they were doing - could be anywhere from ~240mph to ~800mph depending on mission parameters - 500mph is as good a guess as any without knowing specifics.

Schlong&Stable · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:26

Rroff said:
Yeah can't see Putin taking it lying down now.

What choice does he have? Russia would be annihilated by NATO is a conventional war. It's not even clear they could best Turkey alone. So unless Putin is willing to go nuclear, there won't be a military response. Or at least, not one that will escalate things.

MooMoo444 · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:26

This is where fallout 5 starts

Get to your vaults boys!

xdcx · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:27

RT are now claiming it was a Turkish F-16 fighter which downed the Russian SU-24. This will hopefully be the start of a full confirmation on what actually shot it down if so because it's still unconfirmed as it stands.

https://www.rt.com/news/323264-turkish-f16-fighter-shot-Su24/

I updated the first post with links to The Guardians and RT's live news feeds on this matter. I am happy to add more so there is a neutral bank of sources for news coming in rather than relying on one outlet.

Firestar_3x · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:30

So according to the BBC that Radar track is:

Turkish officials released what they said was the radar image of the path the Russian plane took, showing it flying across Turkey's southern-most tip, in Hatay province

Yet as we know that track doesn't agree with the Turkish comments about the location it flew, which the BBC report in the same story.

xdcx · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:33

Yes, the radar tracks and what airspace this jet has been in are still completely disputed at the moment. Russia adament they did not enter Turkish airspace whereas Turkey are adament that they did.... Still no conrete evidence from either side really which will be a main point in this.

Image of jet obliterated mid air, not sure if it's a still from the videos popping up, but at first glance I'd say so....

Image incorrect, as pointed out - BBC fail =

BBC said:
Apologies, we earlier published a picture of what appeared to be the downing of the Russian jet provided by the AFP news agency. They have since said it was provided at another time.

dowie · 24 Nov 2015 at 14:36

Over Clocker said:
At the very least, if a Russian warplane strayed into actual UK airspace, after repeated warnings, warning shots would be fired.

Yes, Turkey SHOULD have fired off some warning shots from the plane's cannon first, but they shot it down. Either way, time will tell who was at fault here.

unlikely after the plane had already crossed and flown away...

like say a Russian plane overflies the channel islands and we shoot it down after the event... I don't think there is much justification for shooting someone in the back after they've done something

I think Turkey is on thin ice here - sure it appears from their claims the Russian jet did cross a tiny slice of their territory... but they've then shot it down over Syrian territory while it is flying away