Soldato
If AMD were as aggressive as they could be they might actually make some market share back, instead they are content to just follow whatever Nvidia do. It's crazy that they refuse to take advantage of Nvidia's greed.
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Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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- 30,113
Tbh AMD have shown with their cpu launch-pricing that they can be just as greedy as Nvidia (once they get on top) if not more so, they're no-ones saviour.
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Soldato
100%, I was thinking purely for business reasons. Increasing market share and mindshare. Start winning people over by making Nvidia look bad, greedy.
Seems they're happy where they are though.
Wait what? i don't know if i'm reading that right? There is no difference between the 4060Ti 8GB and 4060Ti 16GB, the bus width is exactly the same for both, the differences in performance you're seeing is down to the 16GB version having 16GB of VRam.
Not having enough VRam can effect the game in many different ways because there are many different ways that game engines and developers deal with it, some produce blurry textures, some missing some textures entirely, like Forza 5, and some reduce the performance because what it cannot fit in VRam it shunts to system memory and with that a portion if not wholey in some cases, like Rust for example, turns your dGPU in to an iGPU, this is why its not always so apparent that your VRam is or is not enough, sometime you don't actually know unless you compare identical GPU's with different amounts of VRam side by side, the 4060Ti 8GB vs 16GB is a good example of this.
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I always hated the "8GB is enough" arguments, its the argument of fools and it makes people like Nvidia complaisant selling us over priced under specked junk.
I'm glad those people lost the argument. Because no one wants to go back to the glory days of over priced high end quad core CPU's, even those making those idiotic arguments in those days would never go back to it.
Now the fools have moved on to trying to justify a 30% DLSS tax.....
I'm glad those people lost the argument. Because no one wants to go back to the glory days of over priced high end quad core CPU's, even those making those idiotic arguments in those days would never go back to it.
Now the fools have moved on to trying to justify a 30% DLSS tax.....
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What I'm saying is that the 4060 Ti 16GB shows a lot less benefit from the RAM in benchmarks (especially when the resolution is pumped up) than I'd have expected it to have (TPU's review says 1% for 1440p and 2% for 4K) and I believe that's a limitation of the clamshell design, which the 7600 XT will also suffer from.
It will help in those things you mentioned, which are often invisible to benchmarks, but the degree it will help performance is less than a card with a bigger bus (or faster memory), which is why I'd prefer the hypothetical 7700 non-XT.
The difference between the 8GB and 16GB 4060Ti is not always going to be there, because surprise surprise some games are fine with 8GB of VRam, and others its visual, like blurry or missing textures, its not performance related.
Ok... this is me with the 2070S.
Forza 5, looks at the road textures imitatively in front of the car, later in the lap look at some of the foliage on the side of the road, they are a weird blue rainbow colour, that's missing textures.
Rust...
120Hz no problem, go near the scapyard its 30Hz, that's this the dGPU becoming an iGPU as is shunt textures that cannot fit in VRam to System Ram, later in the video i turn graphics down and my frame rates jump 4 fold, because with lower graphics i have enough VRam.
These are just a couple of examples out of many i can give you, and my card is about 10 or 15% slower than the venilla RX 7600.
3 years ago i had already got to the stage where an 8GB card was out of the question, at any price.
Forza 5, looks at the road textures imitatively in front of the car, later in the lap look at some of the foliage on the side of the road, they are a weird blue rainbow colour, that's missing textures.
Rust...
120Hz no problem, go near the scapyard its 30Hz, that's this the dGPU becoming an iGPU as is shunt textures that cannot fit in VRam to System Ram, later in the video i turn graphics down and my frame rates jump 4 fold, because with lower graphics i have enough VRam.
These are just a couple of examples out of many i can give you, and my card is about 10 or 15% slower than the venilla RX 7600.
3 years ago i had already got to the stage where an 8GB card was out of the question, at any price.
I'm not making an argument about the relative worth of the VRAM (you could have pulled TPU's ray tracing benchmarks for example, to show larger % differences between them), I'm making a point about the design choice, how effective it is and which one I would have preferred to have.
Since we don't have a 4060 Ti on a 256-bit bus, or a 192-bit 7700 non-XT 12GB to compare with, I can only express a personal belief / preference. I would probably buy one of those, but I'm not buying this (unless AMD release an XTX that addresses it, but that seems unlikely
).
I'm not making an argument about the relative worth of the VRAM (you could have pulled TPU's ray tracing benchmarks for example, to show larger % differences between them), I'm making a point about the design choice, how effective it is and which one I would have preferred to have.
Since we don't have a 4060 Ti on a 256-bit bus, or a 192-bit 7700 non-XT 12GB to compare with, I can only express a personal belief / preference. I would probably buy one of those, but I'm not buying this (unless AMD release an XTX that addresses it, but that seems unlikely
Yeah i take your point, what they are doing is taking advantage of ever increasing memory IC speeds and using that to give us ever decreasing bus widths without loosing too much performance vs previous generations.
Both AMD and Nvidia, rather cynically in my view to cut costs rather than passing the performance benefits of faster IC's on to us, the 4060Ti / RX 7600 would be very much faster card's with a 256Bit memory bus, double the bandwidth, this is with 20Gb/s IC's, you know what they will do when the 30Gb/s GDDR7 IC's come out? cut the bus width down even more.
Its a ##### tragedy.
Having said that theres is no point in having fast VRam if there isn't enough of it....
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You can see it in action.
My 2070S with 14Gb/s IC's and 256Bit Bus has 448GB/s of bandwidth
The 4070 with 21Gb/s IC's and a 192Bit Bus has 504GB/s of bandwidth.
Ok so it is more, but only through the advancement of the Memory IC's which are not made by Nvidia, with a 256Bit Bus, same as the 2070 and 3070 it would have 756GB/s of bandwidth. Oh.... no that's the preserve of 1000 $+ GPU's right?
My 2070S with 14Gb/s IC's and 256Bit Bus has 448GB/s of bandwidth
The 4070 with 21Gb/s IC's and a 192Bit Bus has 504GB/s of bandwidth.
Ok so it is more, but only through the advancement of the Memory IC's which are not made by Nvidia, with a 256Bit Bus, same as the 2070 and 3070 it would have 756GB/s of bandwidth. Oh.... no that's the preserve of 1000 $+ GPU's right?
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Yeah, from that POV this card makes sense, but then, it should probably be the default config instead of the option.
Definitely cynically, which is part of why I dislike this card, because I expect most people buying it won't know it has the same bus.
That's not to say they won't benefit from the RAM, because they will, but not like they might expect. I don't have the BOM, but I'd assume a 7700 non-XT 12GB is more expensive to manufacture than this (7700 XT is a huge card
) and I guess wouldn't stack up in marketing versus the 4060 Ti either.
Intel needs to concentrate on its own lunch, AMD are eating that...
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Maybe for CPUs but I think Intel will do well with GPUs now the drivers are in better shape, it’s not even like they need to do much to beat AMD and Nvidia at the lower end.
Soldato
- Joined
- 9 Dec 2010
- Posts
- 7,405
Dead on arrival.
Soldato
Any lower end cards, with 16GB are welcome for this section of gamers.
I think AMD Adrenaline would let me clock my 7600 up to the XT levels (?) so then you 'just' have 8GB extra memory, as the 4060Ti showed that doesn't often make much difference. I don't think a close to £300 RRP is going to make it very successful.
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You can very, very quickly run out of VRAM even at this performance level. Was messing around with CP2077 again after a long hiatus yesterday and game quickly blew past 12 GB (4K (also less, like 3840x 1620-1350 etc.)/FSR 2 on - various quality levels), even with RT off. Now add in a decent texture mod and I can see it will reach near my 16 GB quite comfortably. It's also quite amusing to notice that it can now more freely use ram (when it was quite heavily tuned for near that 10 limit GB) and have better LoDs once Nvidia aren't selling just 8-10 GB cards like during Ampere. Funny how all these sponsored updates work. 