Ryzen "2" ?

[ljt]

Excuse my ignorance on the finer points of CPU architecture, but isn't the Ryzen architecture basically a mesh? and not a "ring bus" like intels current 8 series? and so Ryzen is more akin to Intels HEDT platform CPUs?

i.e.
Ryzen 1600x is more like an Intel 7800x (rather than 8700k)
Ryzen 1800x is more like an Intel 7820x
etc

I'm thinking, even if they could get Ryzen running at 4.5Ghz it would never really catch up on the gaming scene with an equivalent clocked ring bus CPU such as 8600k/8700k until game engines better utilise the mesh type CPU structure?

I say this because I was looking at gaming comparisons of 1600x vs 7800x and 1800x vs 7820x at stock and the same clock speeds, and also overclocked, and when they match clock speeds the scores are extremely close fps wise. When the Ryzen and Intels HEDT cpu's are then compared to the ring bus cpu's like the 7700k/8700k etc they both get out classed? Even clocking the 7800x to 4.7Ghz had little impact on catching up to even a stock 7700k.

Which also brings me onto another thought I had, will Intel keep the ring bus type CPU's when moving to 8 cores on the mainstream line? or does the ring bus design have a limit? If so, then if both AMD and Intel both end up with mesh type CPU's then maybe future game engines will be better optimised for them, and thus even out the performance delta in gaming between AMD/Intel.

 

[Scougar]

Hot damn, so thoughtful discussion!!!

I honestly would have thought a mesh would have been better. A ring seems like it will eventually reach a limit, where a mesh is more expandable and work better with more cores.

 

[daniel2K16]

Seen elsewhere..

 

[humbug]

Nice 12% gain from the 1600 to the 2600 ^^^^^

 

[bru]

That does seem a bit more like it, I would even consider changing from my Xeon 5650 @ 4.4Ghz for one of those. But I feel changing from my 970@1500mhz would be a better bet for my usage, just got to live in hope that the next xx70 card doesn't have too much of an asking price.

 

[sideways14a]

Problem is if you only use a PC for gaming, your upgrade is actually a downgrade. Just give us an 8 core that does 4.5 already etc

Yes if games are all you care about, however the bigger picture puts AMDs chip in a much stronger position.
Making a high clocking 8 core isnt easy but i am sure AMD will get it cracked sooner... prob sooner than intel with a consumer 8 core that doesnt suck or cost the earth.

Who knows we might still see a 2800 with 4.5ghz out there.

 

[Zeed]

Yes if games are all you care about, however the bigger picture puts AMDs chip in a much stronger position.
Making a high clocking 8 core isnt easy but i am sure AMD will get it cracked sooner... prob sooner than intel with a consumer 8 core that doesnt suck or cost the earth.

Who knows we might still see a 2800 with 4.5ghz out there.

I think we will see Intels 8 core mainstream this year tbh. We should thank amd. On other side they could not feel enough pressure from Zen+ and maybe they will wait for full Zen 2

 

[sideways14a]

No doubt about it, AMD being competitive again has forced intel to improve its game.
Just funny how many up and down computer forums on t interwebbys dont see that and blindly keep pursuing an agenda to hurt AMD sales as much as possible.
Fools, immature idiots or folk with money involved ... any which way there comments should be ignored.

Same goes for AMD as well though, say they leapfrog intel over the next 12 to 24 months and stay way out front with there fancy "fabric" and ability to keep adding resources.. we might actually be in a position to root for intel then to keep up the competition.. will seem weird that

 

[LOLN1]

Battlefield 1 ultra settings 1920x1200, windows 10 , 2700x default ,power settings balanced Ryzen
Left screen ram 3200 cl14 (122fps) , right ram 3466 cl14 (146 fps)

 

[eddiew]

I think we will see Intels 8 core mainstream this year tbh. We should thank amd. On other side they could not feel enough pressure from Zen+ and maybe they will wait for full Zen 2

This would be interesting - but I bet Intel's 8 core doesn't do 5ghz any more... Starting to think we are in the prime of single-thread performance right now :S

 

[HeX]

Intel have already said to expect lower clock speeds from their 10nm fab, if it's also mesh based, and heat limited due to thermal paste Vs solder...

It's certainly going to be interesting on the CPU scene and I can't wait to see how it pans out!

 

[humbug]

Battlefield 1 ultra settings 1920x1200, windows 10 , 2700x default ,power settings balanced Ryzen
Left screen ram 3200 cl14 (122fps) , right ram 3466 cl14 (146 fps)

Nice, what about CPU overclock?

 

[Trek9.9sl]

Battlefield 1 ultra settings 1920x1200, windows 10 , 2700x default ,power settings balanced Ryzen
Left screen ram 3200 cl14 (122fps) , right ram 3466 cl14 (146 fps)

This is why many of us are patiently waiting for game testing that examines an x470 board with overclocked memory.

To be fair though, it's difficult to say the test showed a 24 fps difference since the player positioning in each test was a tad off. Not that I could have done any better! The actual fps difference could be a touch more or less.

 

[chrcoluk]

This launch is pretty much confirmed to have nil IPC improvements. Whatever difference exists between the Zen 1 and Coffeelake will still exist, it's not exactly a massive difference, AMD's problem has been the low clocks, solve that and the ~10% difference or whatever it is currently is pretty much irrelevant given the extra 2 cores for the price.

Matches my thoughts. The IPC difference is tolerable, the clocks is what they need to sort out.

Also the year on year annual improvements is whats expected really, you either have large jumps in performance but infrequent new releases e.g. from FX to Ryzen, or regular new products but only incremental improvements, with the odd larger jump so e.g. from sandy bridge to skylake all incremental but then a decent jump on coffee lake.

AMD to compete with intel are probably doing the right thing to copy them on annual updates so ensuring their latest product doesnt have a growing performance gap providing they can at least keep up with improvements from intel. The hope really is that they somehow find a way to add 500+mhz to their performance profile on their chips.

 

[DragonQ]

I agree. If you already have an 8 core, upgrading really isn't worth it.

Zen 2 and Zen 3 are much more compelling upgrades, if AMD live up to their promises.

If the supposed leaks of Vega 64X on 7 nm are reliable then I don't have much hope in the 7 nm process either: only a 100 MHz clock bump.

 

[DragonQ]

Seen elsewhere..

The R5 2600 halving the gap to the i7-8700K in Cinebench is interesting, although the latter can obviously clock higher if you invest the dough. Why no 1600X and 2600X though?

That does seem a bit more like it, I would even consider changing from my Xeon 5650 @ 4.4Ghz for one of those. But I feel changing from my 970@1500mhz would be a better bet for my usage, just got to live in hope that the next xx70 card doesn't have too much of an asking price.

Depends what games you play. In anything CPU-bound like an MMORPG the CPU will probably cripple that card (mine crippes my RX 480 even at 1440p in Guild Wars 2). If your GPU is maxed out in the games you play (assuming V-Sync or frame limiting is off) then a GPU upgrade will work better.

Battlefield 1 ultra settings 1920x1200, windows 10 , 2700x default ,power settings balanced Ryzen
Left screen ram 3200 cl14 (122fps) , right ram 3466 cl14 (146 fps)

Can't see the images and am somewhat dubious but based on your text this is really interesting if reliable. These are the kinds of differences Coffee Lake shows over Ryzen in its best-case-scenario games. If simply upping the RAM speed gives this kind of performance boost that's very impressive. I hope reviewers do try to use faster RAM in their reviews this time, given what we know about Ryzen 1 and the fact that the IMC should support faster speeds now.

Intel have already said to expect lower clock speeds from their 10nm fab, if it's also mesh based, and heat limited due to thermal paste Vs solder...

It's certainly going to be interesting on the CPU scene and I can't wait to see how it pans out!

This is exactly why Coffee Lake was rushed out, Intel are trying to squeeze their ring-bus architecture as much as possible because AMD look to have a more solid ground going forwards for higher core-count mesh architectures. Whether it'll work for 8 cores, we'll see.

 

[Martini1991]

The R5 2600 halving the gap to the i7-8700K in Cinebench is interesting, although the latter can obviously clock higher if you invest the dough. Why no 1600X and 2600X though?

Days ago these guys were condemned by a Ryzen 2 owner, I wouldn't put any stock in their results.

 

[DragonQ]

Days ago these guys were condemned by a Ryzen 2 owner, I wouldn't put any stock in their results.

Ah I see.

 

[chrcoluk]

So, for someone heavily into running emulators, where single core speed & IPC are king & rarely ever utilise more than 4cores, Intel will still be the choice of champions then.

It's looking more and more likely that Zen 2 in 2019, where clockspeeds (hopefully) hit 4.5Ghz+, might be the crossover point where I wouldn't have to worry about running either AMD or Intel for emulation.

Seems they moving to a high performance fab for zen2 which targets 5ghz speeds, yes that will definitely have my interest.

 

[chrcoluk]

Pubg has a reputation for having pretty terrible optimisation though doesn't it? hardly the fault of any cpu?

I have always said I think its "poor optimised" games that should go through review tests, "optimised" games hide performance differentials between hardware more. In the real world most games are not optimised well, the likes of witcher 3 which are, are not the norm when looking across the mass of PC games out there. Yet reviewers tend to deliberately pick games that are optimised well.

What I like about that data is it shows the meaningless of logical threads for gaming. The intel vs AMD results is probably more about clock speeds and intel specific compiler settings.