Ryzen "2" ?

David Bisset · 10 Jul 2018 at 14:26

Agreed it's not helping just slating cheaper stuff for the crime of ... Being cheaper. If you're trying to set world records fine go for overbuilt vrms but for building a computer it's not necessary so some cheap options will be appropriate.

Davedree · 10 Jul 2018 at 14:34

End of the day ryzen/+ doesn't suffer from excessive current draw. So whilst an over engineered power reg is a welcome, it's not going to help the CPU scale in frequency either.
Unless you use a chiller or the system is just a bencher.

Whilst there are cheaper boards with questionable power reg capability like the gig350 gaming 3, I'm sure there are cheap boards with enough capability, just you need to do your research before buying.

eddiew · 10 Jul 2018 at 14:45

humbug said:
He says the same thing about all MSI boards and all but the most expensive ASRock boards. so what is actually left sub £250 for anyone to buy?

This is what i find so frustrating about people like him, to him everything below a very high price is utter garbage, he's a bit of a hardware snob, which really isn't very helpful when you don't money to burn.

It's fair criticism, but it does sort of highlight that we're being sold "8-phase" boards that are usually just 4. Truthfully, 4 is enough for a stable stock system, else we'd have a world full of people who can't get the things running properly, but I appreciate someone taking the time to do a teardown and call the manufacturers out on a lie. I also like that it highlights the premium boards for people who want to make the investment and have a board that will seat Ryzen 3 with no questions asked

The budget board he was kindest about was the MSI Carbon X470, I think. IIRC it's 4 phases but they are heavyweight and can handle a lot of amps.

You can also check out this reddit thread, which broke down a lot of X370 and B350 boards and worked out what VRMs they're using. It's pretty likely that the X470 refreshes are at least as good as these: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/630gc9/am4_motherboard_tier_list_updated_40217/ (Note I don't think they're differentiating between doubled phases that are out of step, and doubled phases that are in-step and thus not really additional phases.)

humbug · 10 Jul 2018 at 15:06

eddiew said:
It's fair criticism, but it does sort of highlight that we're being sold "8-phase" boards that are usually just 4. Truthfully, 4 is enough for a stable stock system, else we'd have a world full of people who can't get the things running properly, but I appreciate someone taking the time to do a teardown and call the manufacturers out on a lie. I also like that it highlights the premium boards for people who want to make the investment and have a board that will seat Ryzen 3 with no questions asked

The budget board he was kindest about was the MSI Carbon X470, I think. IIRC it's 4 phases but they are heavyweight and can handle a lot of amps.

You can also check out this reddit thread, which broke down a lot of X370 and B350 boards and worked out what VRMs they're using. It's pretty likely that the X470 refreshes are at least as good as these: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/630gc9/am4_motherboard_tier_list_updated_40217/ (Note I don't think they're differentiating between doubled phases that are out of step, and doubled phases that are in-step and thus not really additional phases.)

In some sense it is yes, and i'm not taking away from him his knowledge and the fact that he bothers to share it.

With that i didn't know my Motherboard was in fact not as it appeared to me a 6 phase but what he calls "A big 3 phase" it has 6 sets of Fets and Chokes but is actually operating in 3 Phase mode, had i known that at the time i would have gone for the Gigabyte B350 Gaming, which is a true 4 phase.

Having said all of that amongst all his complaining about this he fails to mention something about this that is actually quite important, using 2 sets of VRMs instead of one distributes the load and heat making it more stable and have better component longevity, so at least where they are not spending the extra money on doubler chips they are throwing extra components into the mix to make it better in another way, i don't believe its entirely down to trying to fool people into seeing more in pictures so it must be better, altho in my case with my limited knowledge about VRMs knowing more = better i was fooled.

Still, he does, no he really does also bang on about this as if 3 or 4 phase VRMs without doublers are useless for overclocking, the way he bangs on about my Motherboard you'd think its completely useless, in fact its been running my 1600 at 3.9Ghz with 3000Mhz crappy ram at 3066Mhz 16-17-17 since day two without so much of a slight complaint, its rock solid.

Maybe if he just lightened up a bit?

eddiew · 10 Jul 2018 at 15:32

humbug said:
Still, he does, no he really does also bang on about this as if 3 or 4 phase VRMs without doublers are useless for overclocking, the way he bangs on about my Motherboard you'd think its completely useless, in fact its been running my 1600 at 3.9Ghz with 3000Mhz crappy ram at 3066Mhz 16-17-17 since day two without so much of a slight complaint, its rock solid.

Lol, if you go by this forum then you can't possibly game on anything less than a 2700X or 8700K with a 1080ti. Bare minimum :')

But yeah, I agree that Buildzoid could do with being a bit less slammy on the mid tier stuff that would be fine for hosting a 6-core. And he sort of does let you know that they are, but in a very begrudging way that makes it feel like the whole product must be rubbish. I do like that he highlights the boards using cheap-ass capacitors rated for like a year at 100C, while sitting next to a high resistance VRM that's going to kick out the heat.

Reddit's VRM tier lists are quite a good way to go. Their z370 list is very far reaching and breaks them down into max currents that the boards can sustain, so if you know an overclocked 8700k will pull around 180-200 watts, you know to avoid anything in the 150 bracket, and that above 250 is either for LN2 fans or for those who're betting on 8-core coming to these chipsets. Or who just want to unleash less waste heat from their power phases, which is quite legitimate in this weather

That said, I also think manufacturers should be obligated to write on the box what CPUs this board can and cannot handle. It irks me that I was sold on the AM4 upgrade path, then months later discovered that my godawful Gigabyte AB350M was barely holding up under a 1600X at stock. It was never going to be an upgrade path. Arguably that's my fault for not doing enough research, but if the description on the store page had been "Max CPU 1600X" or even "Max 120 watts" then I'd have sensed something was up and looked elsewhere. Tbh I suspect it's the board makers' way of ensuring that actually we WILL be buying a new board with the next gen CPUs.

*edit* I'm confusing current and power, and I can't remember which the tier lists use and can't be bothered to look

4K8KW10 · 10 Jul 2018 at 17:05

eddiew said:
That said, I also think manufacturers should be obligated to write on the box what CPUs this board can and cannot handle. It irks me that I was sold on the AM4 upgrade path, then months later discovered that my godawful Gigabyte AB350M was barely holding up under a 1600X at stock. It was never going to be an upgrade path. Arguably that's my fault for not doing enough research, but if the description on the store page had been "Max CPU 1600X" or even "Max 120 watts" then I'd have sensed something was up and looked elsewhere. Tbh I suspect it's the board makers' way of ensuring that actually we WILL be buying a new board with the next gen CPUs.

Your GA-AB350M supports the new Ryzen 7 2700X and it is very clearly written in there https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x#support-cpu
They can't write on the box because the list will be further extended.

Gerard · 10 Jul 2018 at 18:49

3200 is pretty easy on my motherboard (crosshair 6 hero) with this ram, https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...l-memory-kit-cmr16gx4m2c3600c1-my-4ay-cs.html

Though getting it to 3400-3600 is currently undoable. I can do 3400 barely but it usually ends with a lock up.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 10 Jul 2018 at 18:56

Gerard said:
3200 is pretty easy on my motherboard (crosshair 6 hero) with this ram, https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...l-memory-kit-cmr16gx4m2c3600c1-my-4ay-cs.html

Though getting it to 3400-3600 is currently undoable. I can do 3400 barely but it usually ends with a lock up.

Thanks - what is the CPU you have??

Gerard · 10 Jul 2018 at 20:03

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Thanks - what is the CPU you have??

2700x, on an x370 board. Didn't see any point moving to a 470, from what I've read it makes virtually no difference in terms of performance.

eddiew · 10 Jul 2018 at 20:13

4K8KW10 said:
Your GA-AB350M supports the new Ryzen 7 2700X and it is very clearly written in there https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x#support-cpu
They can't write on the box because the list will be further extended.

4+3 phase with no heatsinks on the SoC vrms... and the bios is stupid. Any thought of touching the multiplier set the vcore to 1.6, so that very quickly ended thoughts of 3.9 on all cores!

Those VRMs were 85C with a 1600X at stock. Putting a 2700X into it, even without attempting to OC would almost certainly send them well north of 100. Or imagine skipping this gen and going for a 3700X as was my original plan. 12 cores in that is gonna be a house fire :/

4K8KW10 · 10 Jul 2018 at 21:41

eddiew said:
4+3 phase with no heatsinks on the SoC vrms... and the bios is stupid. Any thought of touching the multiplier set the vcore to 1.6, so that very quickly ended thoughts of 3.9 on all cores!

Those VRMs were 85C with a 1600X at stock. Putting a 2700X into it, even without attempting to OC would almost certainly send them well north of 100. Or imagine skipping this gen and going for a 3700X as was my original plan. 12 cores in that is gonna be a house fire :/

You bought the cheapest motherboard with expectations that it will overclock well. Wow.
This is a motherboard for the Ryzen 7 2700/1700 and Ryzen 5 2600/1600. And in a well ventilated case.

eddiew · 10 Jul 2018 at 21:53

4K8KW10 said:
You bought the cheapest motherboard with expectations that it will overclock well. Wow.
This is a motherboard for the Ryzen 7 2700/1700 and Ryzen 5 2600/1600. And in a well ventilated case.

Which is exactly my point about it should say on it what it's not going to handle. But it says it will take a 2700X.

I've learned quite a lot about motherboard build quality and VRMs over the last 10 months, but from a position of ignorance people tend to assume that any AM4 board should handle any AM4 processor - unless it says otherwise.

Also I wanted mATX, which I've since learned there were ZERO good boards for. At the time and without much knowledge, it seemed ok. I'd had good experiences with previous Gigabyte boards and trusted the brand. More fool me. Won't do that again.

4K8KW10 · 10 Jul 2018 at 23:42

Normally, other users select this or similar boards with the intent to put some of the cheaper and less power hungry processors.
But even if you do put the most expensive processor on the cheapest motherboard, if it says it will handle it, then it will.
Just make sure you put something on those VRMs, so at least you are in peace that they wouldn't go that hot.
M.2 SSDs like the Samsung 970 Evo are also sold without corresponding heatsinks but the manufacturer doesn't explicitly state those won't work as they are.

Hagar · 11 Jul 2018 at 09:09

My advice on any motherboard for overclocking, before you buy, RTFM. Easy enough to do now with all the info on line. This will tell you the available bios controls and likely board performance.

In general for overclocking, spec a good board. ££ spent on the board are more worthwhile than ££ spent on the processor.

Zeed · 11 Jul 2018 at 13:10

so now people are whining about Buildzoid ?? Dont like Him dont watch Him. I would be very happy to find other source of PROPER DEEP motherboards tests from someone else.

humbug · 11 Jul 2018 at 13:20

Zeed said:
so now people are whining about Buildzoid ?? Dont like Him dont watch Him. I would be very happy to find other source of PROPER DEEP motherboards tests from someone else.

No one whining about Buildzoid, Zeed, relax.

Martini1991 · 11 Jul 2018 at 13:27

Finally changed my CPU on my Ryzen 2700 to an AIO.

Why on Earth is the Asus Prime X370 Pro AM4 backplate "glued" to the motherboard?!

Gerard · 11 Jul 2018 at 14:12

Martini1991 said:
Finally changed my CPU on my Ryzen 2700 to an AIO.

Why on Earth is the Asus Prime X370 Pro AM4 backplate "glued" to the motherboard?!

So you changed your cpu on your cpu? Presumably because you like cpu's?

Illuminist · 11 Jul 2018 at 14:30

Gerard said:
So you changed your cpu on your cpu? Presumably because you like cpu's?

Where can I get one of these AIO cpus to replace my 2700x cpu?

Martini1991 · 11 Jul 2018 at 14:38

Gerard said:
So you changed your cpu on your cpu? Presumably because you like cpu's?

Ha, I meant CPU cooler