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Ryzen "2" ?

Do you know, honestly for the very fact that Intel have made a chip that you "have" to delid if overclocking I will probably go AMD. Yes I am only one customer but you have to have principles.
 
Mercutio said:
Well, if a completely different LP (that's known to scale much better than finfet) + lessons from 1st gen don't see an improvement... there's clearly little point.

So we have:
1) first lessons and improvement on a complete new architecture (consider sandybridge improvements intel side for a moment, basically the same place)
2) a (much) better LP (I'll dig out links)
3) a die shrink

I don't see why we're all sat around going "well, it might just be a toss up on performance vs Ryzen gen 1."

That seems... unduly pessimistic.

The performance gap, right now to Intel is 10-15%, based on clockspeed. IPC is nigh on par, assuming you give it the right ram sticks and can be arsed tweaking it (and it's not some pile of crap from 3-5 years ago that can ONLY run on 1 core). Completely tweaked and set up well (youtube vid linked elsewhere here) and it's... at least within "a head" of Intel. I'd think it more naysaying than being realistic to assume that they won't be basically at a point where the gaps closed. I _think_ that's being quite objective about it?
Click to expand...
The "12 nm" node can't really be considered a die shrink.
 
beany_bot said:
Do you know, honestly for the very fact that Intel have made a chip that you "have" to delid if overclocking I will probably go AMD. Yes I am only one customer but you have to have principles.
Click to expand...

So... previous Intel stuff doesn't bother you? :D ;) (check out the bit about legal action against them on the wiki, there's a youtube vid for the same if it interests you enough :p google "intel, anti-competitive").
Genuine innovation has previously come from AMD. You just have to have a REALLY long memory :D
 
beany_bot said:
Of course it does. But if I want a PC then I have to dance with the devil at some point. It's no secret I think this industry stinks to high heaven. But thats what you get when only a couple of companies can make your product.
Click to expand...

Morally grey. I like that :p
 
By the way, as for the 12LP """shrink""", I think a lot of people overlooked this slide from AMD/GloFo's presentation:
ohY5c58.png
They're not comparing to 14LPP but "industry 16nm FF solutions", seems like marketing fluff and 12LP is just a slightly refined 14LPP.
 
AndreiD said:
By the way, as for the 12LP """shrink""", I think a lot of people overlooked this slide from AMD/GloFo's presentation:
ohY5c58.png
They're not comparing to 14LPP but "industry 16nm FF solutions", seems like marketing fluff and 12LP is just a slightly refined 14LPP.
Click to expand...

16Nm FinFet performance is better than 14Nm low power. Not sure why you keep pointing this out.
 
beany_bot said:
Do you know, honestly for the very fact that Intel have made a chip that you "have" to delid if overclocking I will probably go AMD. Yes I am only one customer but you have to have principles.
Click to expand...

Ditto.

After having to delid my 4770k to get decent temps (ran 24/7 @ 4.8ghz after), I had made my mind up to go Ryzen and then Threadripper arrived on the scene.........
 
amigafan2003 said:
Ditto.

After having to delid my 4770k to get decent temps (ran 24/7 @ 4.8ghz after), I had made my mind up to go Ryzen and then Threadripper arrived on the scene.........
Click to expand...

I wasn't made up on Ryzen until TR showed up, first platform I looked at with enough potential to make me move from Intel.
But if I was gaming only and nothing else, then Intel is probably still the best choice tbh.
 
BongoHunter said:
I wasn't made up on Ryzen until TR showed up, first platform I looked at with enough potential to make me move from Intel.
But if I was gaming only and nothing else, then Intel is probably still the best choice tbh.
Click to expand...

Actually thats not true. At 2560x1440+ res, all are the same. Intel 8700K pulls 10 fps over everyone else at 120fps+ ranges only with GTX1080ti at 1080p. Any lesser GPU and all are equal.
Third,except 1 benchmark on this round of reviews, the rest used Ryzen with 2666 ram, while the majority didn't bother to test the platform 6 months later, posting numbers from March.

Fourth. Something greatly overlooked by many,even some Ryzen owners who complain about perf.
Ryzen prerf scales with Ram speeds and sub timings. Using the FlareX kit as example, the difference between 3200C14 with 100 blck and 3200C12 with 150 blck is 7% in raw perf. Thats as much as 8700K @5ghz pulls over the Ryzen CPUs in the majority of the games at 1080p.
Some around here who changed from ryzen to 8700k complaining about perf, had the ryzen with 2133 ram, and still the 8700K with same cheap module. Guess what. They lose perf even with the coffeelake at that ram speed.

And I do not see many talking about the 7800X and 7820X. These are relative new Intel product, what happened?
HEDT up to now had very strong gaming perf. Now they are beaten by chips at a quarter their price (R5 1600)
 
Panos said:
Actually thats not true. At 2560x1440+ res, all are the same. Intel 8700K pulls 10 fps over everyone else at 120fps+ ranges only with GTX1080ti at 1080p. Any lesser GPU and all are equal.
Third,except 1 benchmark on this round of reviews, the rest used Ryzen with 2666 ram, while the majority didn't bother to test the platform 6 months later, posting numbers from March.

Fourth. Something greatly overlooked by many,even some Ryzen owners who complain about perf.
Ryzen prerf scales with Ram speeds and sub timings. Using the FlareX kit as example, the difference between 3200C14 with 100 blck and 3200C12 with 150 blck is 7% in raw perf. Thats as much as 8700K @5ghz pulls over the Ryzen CPUs in the majority of the games at 1080p.
Some around here who changed from ryzen to 8700k complaining about perf, had the ryzen with 2133 ram, and still the 8700K with same cheap module. Guess what. They lose perf even with the coffeelake at that ram speed.

And I do not see many talking about the 7800X and 7820X. These are relative new Intel product, what happened?
HEDT up to now had very strong gaming perf. Now they are beaten by chips at a quarter their price (R5 1600)
Click to expand...

DF and Gamers Nexus have shown that you are wrong, especially this myth that things equal out at 1440p. They both use 3200, GN even used 3466 which most Ryzen owners won't reach and Ryzen was still well beaten. Even at 1440p on the GN review. In many cases it's easily 20%+.
 
Also, things might be closer in terms of bottlenecks now. But what about the next lot of GPU's etc? Phenom II wasn't *too* bad when it launched but it didn't hold anywhere near as well as the i7 920.

People always seem to forget this. It's all about grunt left in the tank, however this time, if games do heavily make use of high levels of multithreading, then the Ryzens will be pretty good then.
 
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B1gbeard said:
DF and Gamers Nexus have shown that you are wrong, especially this myth that things equal out at 1440p. They both use 3200, GN even used 3466 which most Ryzen owners won't reach and Ryzen was still well beaten. Even at 1440p on the GN review. In many cases it's easily 20%+.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

In these particular tests, even at 1920x1080, Ryzens are equal:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i7_8700k_processor_review,20.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-8700k-processor-review,19.html

In all others, at 1440, they become equal.

Looks like Ryzen is in the people's hearts after all. Coffee Lake can declare a loss in the battle :D


https://www.techpowerup.com

Ryzen 2 will make matters even worse for Intel.
 
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Martini1991 said:
Also, things might be closer in terms of bottlenecks now. But what about the next lot of GPU's etc? Phenom II wasn't *too* bad when it launched but it didn't hold anywhere near as well as the i7 920.

People always seem to forget this. It's all about grunt left in the tank, however this time, if games do heavily make use of high levels of multithreading, then the Ryzens will be pretty good then.
Click to expand...
I think the fact that the FX-8xxx series has caught up to the i5-2500K in newer titles rather than getting left in the dust shows that "more in the tank" is not all about pure clock speed.
 
4K8KW10 said:
:rolleyes:

In these particular tests, even at 1920x1080, Ryzens are equal:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i7_8700k_processor_review,20.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i7-8700k-processor-review,19.html

In all others, at 1440, they become equal.
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You raise your eyes and then do what I did? Not very smart.

Basically what we are saying is that it's mostly pointless looking at reviews as they vary so much? Or do we just pick the ones that show what we want to see? Either way it still makes the info given as incorrect as I bet the poster does not have experience of using a Ryzen and a 8700k.
 
DragonQ said:
I think the fact that the FX-8xxx series has caught up to the i5-2500K in newer titles rather than getting left in the dust shows that "more in the tank" is not all about pure clock speed.
Click to expand...


Links? I imagine there's some games that are heavier on multithreading are up there, because the 2500k was just a quad core launched almost 7 years ago
 
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