would it not be awkward to not answer a question if asked current salary though? what could you say to avoid at a f2f interview
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would it not be awkward to not answer a question if asked current salary though? what could you say to avoid at a f2f interview
Soldato
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Depends on the company surely? I doubled my salary within 6 years at my last employer.
If it’s obviously a big step up from where you are now I’d go to the final interview and see what happens. Worst case scenario you get some interview practise at that level. Best case you get an offer that meets your expectations.
If you get an offer that doesn’t you can go back to them saying it isn’t enough and see what happens.
From their POV it makes sense to offer you less than they would someone with experience at that level already. If it’s a big step up for you maybe you don’t have the experiences/skills to command that kind of salary yet?
Could you be overestimating your own value? Is the role otherwise not worth the move?
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Not particularly, you can tell them it's covered by an NDA for example (if you have signed an NDA), but also you can do what I mentioned above and give them a desired/target range.
Recruiter/interviewer: "What is your current salary?"
You: [covered by NDA - if applicable] "but, I'm currently looking for roles paying around £X to £Y, is that in line with what you're looking to offer for this role?"
Something along those lines is often advised, also it maybe comes across as less combative than just saying "not telling, what are you offering?".
You can, of course, try to preempt it as by naming a figure/range you're still potentially lowballing yourself, you can be proactive in the initial call with the recruiter and throw in something like "As we don't want to waste each other's time and so we're on the same page here would you mind giving me an indicative range for the role please?" but generally recruiters tend to prefer getting at least a desired range out of you first.
Also, remember you can always come up with some excuse to ask for more later if you do get the impression that money is being left on the table or you get some more data points from glass door or similar, most hiring managers will hold back in anticipation that a candidate negotiates an offer.
The ideal situation is to be interviewing at more than one place simultaneously and/or to have a counteroffer from your current employer - either of those things gives leverage, of course, it perhaps also helps if that isn't the case, if you just make it appear that you also have interest from elsewhere even if you don't.
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I guess this is challenge. From my point of view the role and the amount of extra hours needed would require the huge uplift.
From their point of view they will see it differently.
I don't think extra stress is worth it without big uplift considering net each month isn't that different between big gross figures
Honestly, it sounds like you should just decline at this stage.
However, before you do that, it's probably worth considering whether it is worthwhile as a stepping stone even at the lower salary. If it really is a significant step up in responsibility, then taking this job may open up worthwhile opportunities for you in, say, 2 years time if you apply elsewhere. Depends how confident you are that you can find similar work at better salary.
However, before you do that, it's probably worth considering whether it is worthwhile as a stepping stone even at the lower salary. If it really is a significant step up in responsibility, then taking this job may open up worthwhile opportunities for you in, say, 2 years time if you apply elsewhere. Depends how confident you are that you can find similar work at better salary.
There's a difference between an absolute salary offer and an indication of what the salary is likely to be. It's a waste of everyone's time if you go through a multi-stage interview process and then at the end they can't make you an acceptable offer. You don't need to know what the offer will be (which as you intimated would be influenced by your worth and capability that they determine during the process), but you need to know the ballpark so you can dismiss it early on if you are poles apart.
I do agree with this however - you need to approach it the right way, making it clear that that it's simply ensuring that hygiene factors are met to avoid wasting their time. It's much easier to have these conversations with a recruiter, I wouldn't raise it directly with the interview panel as you want their impression to be of someone that is keen to help their organisation and progress your career there, rather than just someone looking for the biggest paycheque.
I always seek clarification on the package from whomever I'm dealing with on the hiring front (external/internal recruiter), I tend to find this an easier conversation if they've made the first approach (rather than me submitting an application) as I can then cite it as a knockout question "to avoid wasting your time". Doing it in written form is also sometimes easier because it gives you thinking time to craft your responses, compared to a verbal conversation where an experienced negotiator might back you into a corner where you feel pressured to disclose more than you want to about current salary.
This is concerning as your current salary should not be relevant to what salary they will offer for the role, all that matters is your aptitude for the role cross-referenced with your salary expectations. If you got a 10% payrise tomorrow that doesn't instantly make you 10% better at another job. Conversely if you are a CEO who chooses to take no / nominal salary, that doesn't make you worthless.
Some people are underpaid (I used to be one of them). That doesn't make them bad at their job or lacking experience and using current salary as a factor in future salary just perpetuates the problem. If an underpaid person moves to a new role with anotherlow-ball salary then it won't be long before they feel undervalued again.
The issue here is if the company is using current salary as a proxy for skill/experience. It's highly misleading in some cases (in both directions, you sometimes get people who are paid more they should be based on their skill, what they are delivering etc). So if they are going to say "ah, this person is only earning £x, so clearly they can't have much responsibility atm and don't warrant a decent wage" rather than actually probing that subject during interview, it jeopardises the process somewhat. Anecdotally, if I look at the job I had with most responsibility and where (IMO) I added the most value, it paid less than the 3 jobs I've had since with lower responsibility. I would have been more than capable of doing my current role back then when salary was £40k less, it's not like I've massively improved since. From the other side of the fence, I once interviewed an internal candidate who'd not worked in the discipline directly and was on a relatively low salary in another area of the business (significantly under market rate for the role we were hiring). However, during interview it became clear that she had quite a few transferrable skills, and was already doing some elements of the role. If I just looked at her prior salary and said "nah, she's clearly too junior" that would have been a lose-lose situation for everyone.
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Soldato
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That all goes without saying really. I assume the company have asked for more than just OP's current salary - CV, covering statement etc plus he's already had 2 (?) interviews with them so they'll already have some idea of whether he's under or overpaid for his current role versus the new one.
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Hang time makes excellent points.
I was asked my current salary before I could ask a salary range. Therefore, I followed up afterwards and got the vague answer that there is no particular range and salary would be dictated on experience, current salary etc.
Why base it on current salary if I am doing a totally different role. The two roles have many differences.
I was asked my current salary before I could ask a salary range. Therefore, I followed up afterwards and got the vague answer that there is no particular range and salary would be dictated on experience, current salary etc.
Why base it on current salary if I am doing a totally different role. The two roles have many differences.
Soldato
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I haven't interviewed for a while now but if they ask for salary say, my package is worth around £x, where x is plus 30-50% or so on top of your basic, unless your already well paid.
If they quiz you say well is basic plus bonuses, allowances etc
Best to rehearse this a bit and be able to trot it off, with a few variations.
When asking for expected salary I would always say, looking for a package around £y but the role and company will influence that based on how much I want to work for you, and also what opportunities i see. Type of thing.
Again rehearse and have a few variations. Then in your thinking time after being asked your just selecting which version you trot out, rather than trying on the hoof to think of a number etc.
Talking packages has two benefits, its less precise than a basic salary. And companies vary in how they structure remuneration. It also means you can still haggle later even if they do offer you a package thats broadly that amount.
You can "oh I see its around what I said, but the bonus is very significant and its a bit of a risk for me as I have no idea if you will regularly pay it, I cannot afford that much risk in salary" etc.
Its always easier when going through recruiters I find. They will almost always have a number, even if its a "package of around" £y.
Then you know if asked at interview you can push that to maybe £y+10% when they ask you.
The bit hangtime mentions about being underpaid hurt me in my first switch. I was going to interviews and after a few the recruiter said to me, do you really do what you said in your current role, the last interview you went to they don't believe you with your salary (real, I told them) and your CV/what you said at interview.
Next interview I went to (diff company), I added 30% to my salary when they asked and said I was looking for another 20% roughly on top of that. After two interviews I was offered the job, on the salary I requested.
Afterwards I found it had a load of extra benefits I wasn't expecting, shorter working week etc! Had I of known that I would have asked for less probably.
If they quiz you say well is basic plus bonuses, allowances etc
Best to rehearse this a bit and be able to trot it off, with a few variations.
When asking for expected salary I would always say, looking for a package around £y but the role and company will influence that based on how much I want to work for you, and also what opportunities i see. Type of thing.
Again rehearse and have a few variations. Then in your thinking time after being asked your just selecting which version you trot out, rather than trying on the hoof to think of a number etc.
Talking packages has two benefits, its less precise than a basic salary. And companies vary in how they structure remuneration. It also means you can still haggle later even if they do offer you a package thats broadly that amount.
You can "oh I see its around what I said, but the bonus is very significant and its a bit of a risk for me as I have no idea if you will regularly pay it, I cannot afford that much risk in salary" etc.
Its always easier when going through recruiters I find. They will almost always have a number, even if its a "package of around" £y.
Then you know if asked at interview you can push that to maybe £y+10% when they ask you.
The bit hangtime mentions about being underpaid hurt me in my first switch. I was going to interviews and after a few the recruiter said to me, do you really do what you said in your current role, the last interview you went to they don't believe you with your salary (real, I told them) and your CV/what you said at interview.
Next interview I went to (diff company), I added 30% to my salary when they asked and said I was looking for another 20% roughly on top of that. After two interviews I was offered the job, on the salary I requested.
Afterwards I found it had a load of extra benefits I wasn't expecting, shorter working week etc! Had I of known that I would have asked for less probably.
"depends on your current salary"
This can be translated to "as little as possible" as people have already alluded to. There is no relevance to what your current salary is other than for them to pay as little as possible to still keep you interested.
You see how the whole thing is geared towards a company wanting to pay as little as possible when they don't post a salary or at least a range up front. It breaks the whole process and wastes time on both sides. It speaks volumes about the employer.
This can be translated to "as little as possible" as people have already alluded to. There is no relevance to what your current salary is other than for them to pay as little as possible to still keep you interested.
You see how the whole thing is geared towards a company wanting to pay as little as possible when they don't post a salary or at least a range up front. It breaks the whole process and wastes time on both sides. It speaks volumes about the employer.
Soldato
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Love it!
Looking back on interviews I've done, I don't think pay has ever come up directly at interviews in person. It's always been known or discussed before hand with the pimp and discussed later once they decided they are interested in me.
Most interviews have been:
1: See a job with a range or salary and apply sending CV and or covering letter
2: Get response from recruiter or HR of said company if you applied direct
3: Engage in brief discussion on expectations and confirm CV and expected salary and/or your current package and make clear from the start that you are only interested at the upper range of posted range for example.
4: If company are still interested, ask you to interview
5: Typically initial phone interview for technical roles to weed out the blaggers
6: If above goes well, invite to more personal interview with future boss and/or others including a HR/people team person mixing both competency based questions, personal questions about yourself and career as well as other technical ones
7: Occasionally a third interview for higher profile roles
8: Job offer with salary of X with annual performance related bonus of up to Y based on Z etc.
9: Reject initial offer and ask for as much as you think you can get away with
10, 11, 12 continue until you do or don't get what you want offered.
I've also done two things in the past which I regret and would not do again:
1: Accepted an offer subject to passing a competency based test. I gambled that I would meet a required score as really wanted the job. Took the risk. I passed but never got told the score.
2: Accepted 3 months notice as my notice period. I'll never do that again. It's way too limiting.
Most interviews have been:
1: See a job with a range or salary and apply sending CV and or covering letter
2: Get response from recruiter or HR of said company if you applied direct
3: Engage in brief discussion on expectations and confirm CV and expected salary and/or your current package and make clear from the start that you are only interested at the upper range of posted range for example.
4: If company are still interested, ask you to interview
5: Typically initial phone interview for technical roles to weed out the blaggers
6: If above goes well, invite to more personal interview with future boss and/or others including a HR/people team person mixing both competency based questions, personal questions about yourself and career as well as other technical ones
7: Occasionally a third interview for higher profile roles
8: Job offer with salary of X with annual performance related bonus of up to Y based on Z etc.
9: Reject initial offer and ask for as much as you think you can get away with
10, 11, 12 continue until you do or don't get what you want offered.
I've also done two things in the past which I regret and would not do again:
1: Accepted an offer subject to passing a competency based test. I gambled that I would meet a required score as really wanted the job. Took the risk. I passed but never got told the score.
2: Accepted 3 months notice as my notice period. I'll never do that again. It's way too limiting.
And so they don't need to know his current salary then.
No, don't do this, lying about current salary instead of just avoiding the question is very bad if they actually do any sort of background check and it can be grounds for being fired.
If they asked you for your current salary and you give a figure then you immediately start backtracking you're going to look pretty silly and the obvious follow-up question from the recruiter is to just ask again, OK so what is your salary and what was your bonus last year?
Those are specific questions, if you lie you can be sacked for it or lose the job offer, if you don't want to reveal those things then don't go down the route of starting to give information about your current compensation in the first place.
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I think you can inflate a little but should not inflate too much for the reasons you have mentioned.
Having said this apples vs pears comparison in using current salary to predict salary for a totally different role.
I
Too right! No wasting time on non salary roles or offers. Unfortunately not everyone is in the same position which sucks, and is what makes this trend continue.
How would they ever know? I get the point about not lying, but I don't see why lying about your previous salary is so egregious considering you aren't inflating your experience and knowledge which is the main criteria to use to hire you on. Are there specific cases where they will ask for previous pay slips or proof of salary?
I'd be inclined to reject such an intrusion/request if so.
P45?
Could the OP thank the company for their time and as much as you liked the company, would be of benefit etc, you are unable to continue the interview process. You have now undergone xxx amount of interviews and your request for a salary range, package details have gone unanswered.
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D'oh! You can tell I've never switched companies then
How much is a little? If you're barely inflating it then what are you seeking to achieve from doing that? Alternatively, if you're inflating it by what is still a significant enough amount to impact the offer you receive then...
If you're inclined to reject such an "intrusion" then don't answer the question in the first place.
The suggestion from the other poster of a fudge is flawed, while you may personally assign some value to things like "we have bupa, subsidised gym membership and I've accumulated 2 extra holidays per year" those are separate things and they're highly unlikely to make enough of a dent for you to excuse adding 30-50% on top and play dumb saying "oh I was confused, I gave total comp and how much I value those things."
Your bonus is also not your salary and if you've opened up the convo about current comp by answering then you may well get follow-up questions from an experienced recruiter.
For example, if you're just a month away from being awarded your bonus and it's worth a significant amount then you may well want to delay handing in your notice, likewise if you're leaving mid-year your new employer might only be looking at paying you half a bonus/pro-rata but you may want to negotiate a guaranteed bonus or a sign on or something to compensate for the accumulated bonus you'd be losing. Many people in the city for example look to move jobs in February after bonuses have been paid. Essentially if you genuinely do get 50% variable comp above your salary (and you're not underpaid) then you may well have a good reason to both reveal it at some point and use it in negotiations.
Lastly, just go and read any number of blog posts or see youtube videos by ex-recruiters/HR people, I've not seen any of them ever recommend lying about it. Some (current) in-house tech recruiters will recommend answering it but while they may be correct that it doesn't negatively impact things in their current employer (FANG type companies have set ranges and worry about internal equity etc..) they have different incentives there and that's not always applicable. Others will simply recommend ways to avoid answering like giving your target range.
