Salman Rushdie attacked

Roar87 said:
Extreme forms of Islam are, of course, just people following Islam. Most forms of Islam for instance consider death to be the appropriate punishment for blasphemy.
Click to expand...
Have you read the Old Testament or many other countless religious books?

The important thing is a state free from religious influence (separation), democracy and the rule of law; enlightenment values. This is what we need to focus on as such principles are currently under relentless attack from many different quarters.
 
Last edited:
ltron said:
Good people take the good parts of these religious books to heart and bad people take the bad parts. In my experience that's how human psychology works. Have you read the Old Testament?
Click to expand...

Do many main stream religions based on Christianity follow the teachings of the Old Testament? The fact it's called the "Old Testament" is probably somewhat indicative
 
Tony Edwards said:
The west are having people kill others because of Trump for god sake. How many school attacks have these 'barbarians (referencing Muslims) done?
Click to expand...

Hundreds in the past 30 years for example, killing thousands of children.

So unless you were being a horrible racist by discarding everywhere in the world which isn't "The West" in your quote, then you must know that Islamic terrorists have attacked many schools across Africa, Asia, Europe and the Middle East, killing literally thousands of children since the uprising of many Islamic Terror groups post 1970. In fact here's just a brief list of countries where Islamic Terrorists (such as Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Boko Haram, Al Shahab, Taliban, ISIL etc to name the well known ones) have attacked one or more schools since then, just for you -

Afghanistan
Iraq
Yemen
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Bahrain
Libya
Kenya
Mali
Nigeria
Ghana
Chad
Somalia
Egypt
Sudan
France
Russia
Philippines
Indonesia
China
Pakistan (which has more school-based attacks by Islamic Terror groups than all the other countries combined in the past 30 years).
India

The increasing trend of Islamic Terror groups specifically targetting schools has been well reported, for example - https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ools-have-soared-in-the-past-10-years/383825/

So I'm not sure why you may believe that "Trump" gets more kids killed than "Islamic Terror Groups", maybe you could explain?
 
Roar87 said:
Do many main stream religions based on Christianity follow the teachings of the Old Testament? The fact it's called the "Old Testament" is probably somewhat indicative
Click to expand...
Some do, they are literalists. In particular American evangelicals seem to love the violent and backwards parts.
 
ltron said:
Have you read the Old Testament?
Click to expand...
yeah, fire and brimstone, eye for an eye and all that, it is however overridden by the teachings of Jesus - peace and love essentially. pretty much the opposite of the the Quran, which is all over the place chronologically, but when put onto order Mohammed is very warlike and where the dichotomy of Islam comes into play and the terrorists are following Gods law and as such are justified in their actions.

I dont believe evangelical Christians are roaming around killing those that disagree with them though.
 
ianh said:
Hundreds in the past 30 years for example, killing thousands of children.

So unless you were being a horrible racist by discarding everywhere in the world which isn't "The West" in your quote, then you must know that Islamic terrorists have attacked many schools across Africa, Asia, Europe and the Middle East, killing literally thousands of children since the uprising of many Islamic Terror groups post 1970. In fact here's just a brief list of countries where Islamic Terrorists (such as Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Boko Haram, Al Shahab, Taliban, ISIL etc to name the well known ones) have attacked one or more schools since then, just for you -

Afghanistan
Iraq
Yemen
Israel
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Bahrain
Libya
Kenya
Mali
Nigeria
Ghana
Chad
Somalia
Egypt
Sudan
France
Russia
Philippines
Indonesia
China
Pakistan (which has more school-based attacks by Islamic Terror groups than all the other countries combined in the past 30 years).
India

The increasing trend of Islamic Terror groups specifically targetting schools has been well reported, for example - https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ools-have-soared-in-the-past-10-years/383825/

So I'm not sure why you may believe that "Trump" gets more kids killed than "Islamic Terror Groups", maybe you could explain?
Click to expand...

We were talking about in the west during Trumps time. I am putting it down to crazy people following what ever word they think is right. I am in no way defending crazy people doing crazy things nor pretending it didnt/doesnt happen.
 
C Kent said:
yeah, fire and brimstone, eye for an eye and all that, it is however overridden by the teachings of Jesus - peace and love essentially. pretty much the opposite of the the Quran, which is all over the place chronologically, but when put onto order Mohammed is very warlike and where the dichotomy of Islam comes into play and the terrorists are following Gods lawa nd as such are justified in their actions
Click to expand...
Tell that to the Republicans in America, I'm not sure they realise.
 
ltron said:
Some do, they are literalists. In particular American evangelicals seem to love the violent and backwards parts.
Click to expand...

Sure some do. We're not talking about fringe groups though, the majority of Christians follow the teachings of Christ from the New Testament. This is a straw man.

ltron said:
Tell that to the Republicans in America, I'm not sure they realise.
Click to expand...

Not all Republicans are Christian though
 
ltron said:
I believe extremist Christianity is currently held back as most adherents with any wealth and power live in democratic countries (I want to keep it that way, I know they are recently trying their best to undo progress, see the USA).

However, obviously Islamic fundamentalism is causing many more problems now. Over the course of history backwards values and religious fundamentalism of all kinds have caused much bloodshed, Christianity included.

There was a time where the Arab world was rather more advanced than the Western one. For instance the scientist Ibn Al-Haytham was the father of optics. We use Hindu-Arabic numerals in mathematics in the West for a reason and the Islamic/Arab world were the pioneers of algebra. Also, religious freedom was protected and the Islamic world was relatively liberal and tolerant in the Ottoman Empire (at least in the early/mid period). I am not saying it was good by modern standards, I am talking relatively.

I deplore intolerance and backwards values of all kinds wherever they come from, I do not have a romantic view of the past and want us to always strive to improve and go forth in a positive direction which is why I am a progressive.

I hope Salman recovers quickly, I very much support and admire his principled stance on freedom of expression and I applaud him for his courage.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ibn al-Haytham - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Islam and Toleration: Studying the Ottoman Imperial Model on JSTOR

Karen Barkey, Islam and Toleration: Studying the Ottoman Imperial Model, International Journal of Politics, Culture, and Society, Vol. 19, No. 1/2, The New Sociological Imagination II (Dec., 2005), pp. 5-19
www.jstor.org www.jstor.org
Click to expand...

Your first sentence is inaccurate. Large parts of Africa are under the sway of extremist brands of Christianity.

We're not really concerned with what's happening in the far past. We live in the now. The biggest threat in recent history, now and the likely future is Islam.
 
Dis86 said:
Your first sentence is inaccurate. Large parts of Africa are under the sway of extremist brands of Christianity.

We're not really concerned with what's happening in the far past. We live in the now. The biggest threat in recent history, now and the likely future is Islam.
Click to expand...
African countries have no real power on the global stage so my sentence is not incorrect. I agree with your second sentence vs Christianity, but my point was that it is the removal of our democratic rights and freedoms that is the main threat to our liberty and our way of life (the terrorists seek to provoke this and bad governments are more than happy to oblige).
 
ltron said:
African countries have no real power on the global stage so my sentence is not incorrect. I agree with your second sentence vs Christianity, but my point was that it is the removal of our democratic rights and freedoms that is the main threat to our liberty and our way of life (the terrorists seek to provoke this and bad governments are more than happy to oblige).
Click to expand...

What relevance does the global stage have to some poor bugger who has their head cut off because they believe in the wrong deity?
 
Dis86 said:
What relevance does the global stage have to some poor bugger who has their head cut off because they believe in the wrong deity?
Click to expand...
It's limited to their own back yard. They don't have the resources to go on crusades against wicked unbelievers. There is also Islam in Africa and lots of internal strife. I agreed that Christianity is not so revolutionary or radical as extremist Islam at the moment.

What about my main point?
 
Anybody else remember that time when the Holy Father issued a Papal decree calling for Dan Brown's head on a pike over his book, The Da Vinci Code? Or the hilarious time that the Archbishop of Canterbury dragged the entire cast of Monty Python through the streets before burning them for heresy?

The problem isn't religion, per se. The problem is one particular religion.
 
Some folks defend Rushdie's right to express an opinion that as offended billions of Muslims, and then go on to list people they want to stop their right to express an opinion :rolleyes:
 
ltron said:
It's limited to their own back yard. They don't have the resources to go on crusades against wicked unbelievers. There is also Islam in Africa and lots of internal strife.
Click to expand...

Where were the crusades by Islam that have lead to the deaths of hundreds in Europe and the UK over the last decade?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom