Sasha Johnson shot in the head?!?

[Moley]

You can't really argue that it's a huge stretch to draw the most literal conclusion possible while also acknowledging that the post was ambiguous.

You can actually, choosing to take a literal view and ignoring nuance rather exposes the readers biases too.

 

[fez]

I 'just' simply don't see why black people wouldn't be as prosperous as the east Asian immigrants or as poor as the central Asian contingent from the likes of Bangladesh.

Its not skin colour so much as culture. There are many factors that effect the outcome of "non native" peoples in a country and a large on is attitude and work ethic. You will generally start from a disadvantaged point if you are an immigrant so you have to work harder to get the same outcome as a native. Its quite an interesting topic. There are certain black communities in the US that don't exhibit almost any of the issues traditionally attributed to the black population over there and they are almost all communities that have moved to the US voluntarily for a better life. This is part of the reason why I think the current narrative is so damaging to black people everywhere. The current thinking that everything is stacked against you if you are the wrong colour, gender, sexuality etc isn't helpful. We should be addressing inequality but we shouldn't be looking for it at every turn. When there are so many examples of positive outcomes for nearly any group you can think of, why are we so obsessed with focussing on the negative.

I genuinely saw a story the other day on the BBC from a black sprinter saying how she wanted to show black girls they can make it in athletics and be at the top level. I had a quick google and the last white man to win gold in the 100m at an olympics was in the 80s I think. When we make out like any black person who does great things is some sort of unicorn I don't think that tells youngsters anything other than the fact its not expected.

I agree you don't come into this life with anything more than £0 to your name

I think I worded that poorly, I was saying the opposite. The chances of doing well in life are massively improved with wealthy parents. The point was simply that traditionally people who move to another country from a poor country won't be starting from anywhere but the bottom so why would we expect black immigrants to have the same outcome in life as a rich white person whos family have been here 200 years.

As others have said, I hate the way the current critical race theory politics are playing out. I hate how woke is used as a derogatory term and how left and right wing are the 'only' viewpoints. I hate how critical thinking has been eroded and very few are employing the "slow" part of their brain to actually discuss and debate for enrichment rather than conclusion (Thinking Fast/Slow is a great read). I hate how so many of these conversations are about getting to an answer when that isn't the point of discussing such complicated things and it is almost always never that easy.

Thats the problem isn't it. There is no answer. There is even less of a right answer when you can't discuss the topic without claims of racism, privilege, hate speech and any number of other labels that seem to be used to stop any dissenting opinion that doesn't sit well with some people.

 

[dlockers]

Laughably nonsense of the sort only simpletons would actually believe. Next you be telling us that 'anti racists' can't be racist...

Cos its in the name innit?

Spoiler: See here

BLM can mean one of two things both of which make no sense to support, unlike cancer research.

One is a violent, nasty, anti semitic, Marxist organisation that, amongst other things, wants to do away with the traditional family unit and get rid of the police.

The other is a vague sentiment following the meaning of the words in the slogan....

.... with the suggestion being that society as a whole doesn't care for black lives or cares for them less than other ethnicities.

This is demonstrable nonsense.

The single biggest cause of a violent untimely death for a black persons in the UK and the US is being killed by another black person.

It's true that most whites murdered are murdered by other whites but the rates for blacks killing blacks, on a per capita basis are massively higher than the rates for whites killing whites.

Interracially, on a per capita basis, blacks kill whites at around twelve times the rate as the other way around in the US.

Spoiler: Receipts

As of July of 2016 African Americans were the largest racial minority, amounting to an estimated 12.7%

In the same year the FBI figures for homicides nationwide shows that, where the race of the offender was known, this was the break down for homicides involving blacks and whites as either victims or perpetrators.


White victim total = 3,499

Pepetrator White = 2,854
Perpetrator Black = 533

Black or African American victim total = 2,870

Perpetrator White =243
Pepetrator Black = 2,570

So what can we glean from these figures?

For whites just over 81.5% of murders were committed by other whites

and just over 15. 2‰ were committed by blacks

For Black's the figures were just over 8.46%
murded by whites

and over 89.5‰ for deaths at the hands of other blacks.

And let's look at the absolute figures..

Black's killed 533 whites when they made up 12.7‰ of the population

And whites killed 243 blacks when they made up 76.9‰ of the population

So not only did whites kill less blacks then the other way around in overall numbers they did so whilst having over six times as many people in the country!

So you could express the racial disparity in interracial homicides in the USA, on a per capita basis, between blacks and whites as being in the region of over a factor of twelve in favour of the blacks much more frequently being the perpetrators in interacial murders between the two groups (just over six times as many whites as blacks in total and in absolute figures blacks kill over twice as many whites as vice versa)

The police kill, arrest and stop a disproportionate amount of blacks based on their percentage of the population but these disparities are caused primarily by the disproportionate violent crime rates for blacks as reported by witnesses to crimes.

Spoiler: Receipts

U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics

Criminal Victimization, 2017

TABLE 10
Nonfatal violent incidents, by total population, victim, and offender demographic characteristics, 2017

In about three-quarters (76%) of violent incidents where perceived offender characteristics were reported the victim perceived the offender to be male.

Based on victims’ reports, there were about four-fifths as many white offenders as the percentage of whites in the population, about twice as many black offenders as the percentage of blacks in the population, and about one-sixth as many Asian offenders as the percentage.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv17.pdf

In the US whites arrested for violent crimes are significantly more likely to be killed by the police than blacks arrested for violent crimes.



The claim is often then made that blacks commit more crime either because they are poor or because of some legacy of suffering from slavery and segregation.

Neither of these make any sense when examined more closely.

There are nearly three times as many whites living in poverty in the US than blacks as an absolute number (the percentage for blacks as group is about double that of whites but there are far fewer blacks overall than whites).

Spoiler: Receipts

From 2018 figures there were around 25, 295,122 White Americans living in poverty (as defined by the federal governments poverty threshold)

vs 9,148691 blacks living in poverty

https://www.povertyusa.org/facts
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/IPE120218

So if poverty was the main issue then the poor whites should be massively inflating the rate of overall violent crimes for whites vs the smaller number of blacks living in poverty on the US.

If a legacy of oppression was the cause of crime then we could expect one of the most consistently oppressed groups in all of history (the Jews) to top the per capita rates for violent crime but we don't see this.

Instead we see them and other minority groups who often entered the US poor like Koreans and Indians not only surpassing blacks in many metrics (including not being arrested or incarcerated) but also significantly beating the white majority in many cases.

The conclusion should be obvious.

Culture matters and not all cultures are equal.

Whites don't underperform Koreans in many metrics in the US due to racism, systemic or otherwise, they do so because large parts of white culture in the US are inferior to large parts of the culture adopted by Koreans living in the US when it comes to things like economic success and avoiding incarceration.

The same applies to other racial groups when compared to one another.

You can also look at the significant disparities within 'blacks' as a group.

Whites are one of the least likely of all racial groups to goto university in the UK.

Afro Caribbeans attend a rate close to whites but black Africans attend at a much higher rate than either whites or Afro Caribbeans.

Spoiler: Receipts

About 33% of white British school students enrolled in university in the academic years 2010/11 and 2011/12.

That is the lowest enrolment rate of any ethnic group

—next lowest is Black Caribbean students at 37%. By comparison the highest performing groups were Chinese students (76%), Indian students (67%) and Black African students (57%).

Recent research suggests white British attendance has fallen since then.

Again the answer is in culture not racism.

People are done taking uncritical lectures by the likes of BLM supporters about things like supposed white privellege because their claims are all based on lies.

Do we see similar statistics for black culture out of the western world? A lot of what you have posted is just an observation, there isn't much critical thinking within it. In summary your 'spoiler' just says that Koreans are smart because of Korean culture

 

[fez]

I'm sure she'll issue a fullsome apology and attack the culprits if they turn out to be some black gang bangers.

Dianne Abott has made a very successful career out of being black. I'm genuinely astounded that she is still anywhere near politics considering the utter ******** that comes out of her time and time and time again.

 

[Jean-F]

he said "I don't agree with anything blm but you shouldn't have to die over it"

So basically he's admitting on here he doesn't think black lives matter as much as white lives

S.G.F., I love you like a brother, and I think that I’ve made that known in the past, so it hurts me to say that I think that we’ll have to agree to disagree over what we think that the poster was actually saying.

 

[FoxEye]

Ugh, not this again.

"You can't stand against BLM unless you think black lives don't matter!!"

Come on, people, we're smarter than this. Mostly.

If Labour re-branded themselves tomorrow as "The People's Party", you wouldn't start saying, "people who don't vote for The People's Party are against the people!" It's just a freakin' name. It's PR. It's marketing.

Calling themselves BLM doesn't even mean they represent black people or that they automatically have their best interests at heart. It's just a name.

 

[XeNoN89]

Ugh, not this again.

"You can't stand against BLM unless you think black lives don't matter!!"

Come on, people, we're smarter than this. Mostly.

If Labour re-branded themselves tomorrow as "The People's Party", you wouldn't start saying, "people who don't vote for The People's Party are against the people!" It's just a freakin' name. It's PR. It's marketing.

Calling themselves BLM doesn't even mean they represent black people or that they automatically have their best interests at heart. It's just a name.

it's amazing how many people actually fall for this very transparent trick

 

[dlockers]

Ugh, not this again.

"You can't stand against BLM unless you think black lives don't matter!!"

Come on, people, we're smarter than this. Mostly.

If Labour re-branded themselves tomorrow as "The People's Party", you wouldn't start saying, "people who don't vote for The People's Party are against the people!" It's just a freakin' name. It's PR. It's marketing.

Calling themselves BLM doesn't even mean they represent black people or that they automatically have their best interests at heart. It's just a name.

It is a divisive topic though, so people should do best endeavours to clarify what they mean. I don't think anyone argues against "BLM" as a slogan but we can all debate how it goes about its business as an organisation. An ounce of thought when saying they are against BLM would help oodles.

 

[Resident]

Activist Sasha Johnson has reportedly been shot in the head and critically wounded.

A 27-year-old woman was left fighting for her life after a shooting in Peckham, London in the early hours of this morning, she was found on the street after police were called to reports of gunshots shortly before 3am.

This is the sort of thing you hear about in other countries not here, knife crime is kind of the norm now but shootings, can this country actually be saved?

No, it's London. That's fairly normal for London, isn't it?

3 in a week recently in Sheffield plus 4 other murders that are being connected to each other.

 

[R.P.L]

Come on, people, we're smarter than this.

The evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[Caracus2k]

Do we see similar statistics for black culture out of the western world?

The crime rates in Jamaica and South Africa are very bad compared to either the UK or the US.

Rates vary across Africa country to country because there are different cultures and levels and types of governments in place and no one general skin colour is a cultural monolith.

In summary your 'spoiler' just says that Koreans are smart because of Korean culture

Yes that's pretty much what I am saying. Culture matters and not all cultures are equally suited to producing better outcomes for the societies they operate in.

 

[dl8860]

It is a divisive topic though, so people should do best endeavours to clarify what they mean. I don't think anyone argues against "BLM" as a slogan but we can all debate how it goes about its business as an organisation. An ounce of thought when saying they are against BLM would help oodles.

That's fair except there are plenty who would argue against BLM as a slogan alone even.

I just thought edgelord skunkworks should be called out for accusing SGF of having a teenage intellect for drawing a literal conclusion.

 

[Moley]

The point was simply that traditionally people who move to another country from a poor country won't be starting from anywhere but the bottom so why would we expect black immigrants to have the same outcome in life as a rich white person whos family have been here 200 years.

You wouldn't and it's a poor comparison. A better comparison is to compare those poor black immigrants with other people at their socio-economic level starting point - for example poor white natives, poor Asian immigrants, other poor black immigrants from other black communities, etc.

The data currently shows that Africans, Indians and Koreans typically do FAR better than other people starting our poorly and people from Afro-Caribbean and Bangladeshi communities do especially poorly. This is almost entirely down to culture, work ethic, etc.

 

[Skunkworks]

Ugh, not this again.

"You can't stand against BLM unless you think black lives don't matter!!"

Come on, people, we're smarter than this. Mostly.

It's the same trick with AntiFa and the so-called Anti-Hate organisations.

 

[dlockers]

Its not skin colour so much as culture. There are many factors that effect the outcome of "non native" peoples in a country and a large on is attitude and work ethic. You will generally start from a disadvantaged point if you are an immigrant so you have to work harder to get the same outcome as a native. Its quite an interesting topic. There are certain black communities in the US that don't exhibit almost any of the issues traditionally attributed to the black population over there and they are almost all communities that have moved to the US voluntarily for a better life. This is part of the reason why I think the current narrative is so damaging to black people everywhere. The current thinking that everything is stacked against you if you are the wrong colour, gender, sexuality etc isn't helpful. We should be addressing inequality but we shouldn't be looking for it at every turn. When there are so many examples of positive outcomes for nearly any group you can think of, why are we so obsessed with focussing on the negative.

I genuinely saw a story the other day on the BBC from a black sprinter saying how she wanted to show black girls they can make it in athletics and be at the top level. I had a quick google and the last white man to win gold in the 100m at an olympics was in the 80s I think. When we make out like any black person who does great things is some sort of unicorn I don't think that tells youngsters anything other than the fact its not expected.



I think I worded that poorly, I was saying the opposite. The chances of doing well in life are massively improved with wealthy parents. The point was simply that traditionally people who move to another country from a poor country won't be starting from anywhere but the bottom so why would we expect black immigrants to have the same outcome in life as a rich white person whos family have been here 200 years.



Thats the problem isn't it. There is no answer. There is even less of a right answer when you can't discuss the topic without claims of racism, privilege, hate speech and any number of other labels that seem to be used to stop any dissenting opinion that doesn't sit well with some people.

It has to transcend black culture otherwise your fifth sentence is a bit odd ('There are black communities....'). I think this is your second para though - I agree. It is a shame we can't talk about a group as it aids understanding, but if the current grouping just creates further divide within the group, then it isn't a meaningful grouping. Humans play on empathy though as a tool, so I guess that is partly why a simple group is key to things like BLM gaining traction. 'NEET's was the last successful grouping that didn't discriminate IMO.

Your final sentence borders on playing the victim IMO. You've said in your own post that privilege pays a part in this. There is no reason why race should be thrown out the window so prematurely. For some reason culture appears to be the new favourite but it is a proxy for race really.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

For some reason culture appears to be the new favourite but it is a proxy for race really.

Thomas Sowell in 1984.
https://youtu.be/t0auoC2wOsI

A longer discussion should be wish to delve in.
https://youtu.be/U7hmTRT8tb4

Yes culture matters.

 

[200sols]

It is so lazy to just blame race, look at Indians vs Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, one group does well above average yet they are the same 'race' the only differences are cultural.

 

[robfosters]

A few example:

* Heckler & Koch MP5 (submachine gun)
* Heckler & Koch G36 (assault rifle, originally created for the German army)
* Heckler & Koch G (military sniper rifle)
* Heckler & Koch 417 Marksman Rifle (military sniper rifle)
* Heckler & Koch HK69A1 (40mm grenade launcher)
* Heckler & Koch 53 (assault rifle)
* LMT Defender (assault rifle)

This list is not exhaustive.

I’ve seen coppers walk through horse guards parade carrying P90’s with Glock 17’s as sidearms. Serious stopping power.

 

[Caracus2k]

For some reason culture appears to be the new favourite but it is a proxy for race really.

Yes it's a complete mystery why cultures that tend to value things like education, family cohesion, actual community spirit and adherence to the law outperform those that don't.

/ obvious sarcasm

But let's just pretend it's racist to point this out given it's hardly a 'white supremacist' position what with the mediocre group outcomes for whites on average at the moment.

 

[dlockers]

It is so lazy to just blame race, look at Indians vs Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, one group does well above average yet they are the same 'race' the only differences are cultural.

Let be honest, culture is just an amorphic version of race. Until we get specific on the cultures it isn't a helpful word at all. It is used in the professional world a lot ('culture eats strategy for breakfast' - yet it is insanely difficult to nurture, observe and create.

Take Bangladesh and India for example, you have Bengalis... in the Pakistan/India region you have Punjabis... so I'm not disagreeing race is lazy but culture is even more lazy.