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Now that is qualityOr the memory of a Sturgeon
Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.
Caporegime
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It would be a smart move by Scotland.
You would see a lot of English companies moving up north to gain free access to the european market.
In fact it would be the best move since Brexit happened, I reckon Scotland would prosper. Whereas with brexit it will just follow recent times and slowly deteriorate, with people moving south for decent wages.
I think it's fair to say that Parliament would debate the merits of a Scottish Independence Referendum regardless of what the Internet's keyboard warriors think about it.
Except Parliament doe not have to debate it, TM decides whether Scotland gets a second vote or not.
Caporegime
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they aren't that bad at all. in fact on my way home there is only 2 small bits that need repair and the rest is all clear and smooth
There are hundreds of roads... are you telling me you looked at all of them?
Caporegime
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most of the main routes through glasgow, then yes. all the side roads and country roads, then no chance.
i will tell you 1 thing though. that little 1 way road near me (goes over lenzie rail tracks) that has been screaming out to be either replaced with one with 2 lanes or traffic lights for 20+ years just got them a couple of weeks ago. which is amazing now.
country roads on the way to lenzie from robroyston also all got resurfaced even though they weren't even bad IMO.
affluent areas tend to get their roads kept on top off. most likely because they vote whilst the chavs in bad areas don't. all the roads near me are pretty much in very good condition.
if you have any issues with a road go here
https://www.fixmystreet.com/
https://www.fixmystreet.com/reports/Glasgow
i use it every so often when i see something that needs repaired on the routes I use frequently and guess what they are usually fixed within a few weeks
Soldato
You could say that about literally any public election in any country.
Can't argue with that one!
They would move south even faster if Scotland left the UK. The idea that it would turn in to a tax haven is delusional. Everything about Scotland's situation is the opposite of a tax haven. Far to high unemployment, to many public services, not enough business, millionaires also like warm weather.
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Scotland should just have the power to hold a referendum in my opinion. The SNP were elected into power with a manifesto commitment of having a second referendum if the UKs circumstances changed dramatically. Westminster should then respect the result. Self-determination is apparently good enough for the Falklands and Gibraltar after all...
Caporegime
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Who said anything about tax haven?
They would gain free access to the european market.
Population of UK is what 75 million. Population of Europe is 10 times that.
Now lets say I am a company that makes and sells bagless hoovers for instance. I could sell to 75 million without any duties or move to scotland and then have the potential to sell to 750 million freely without having to pay duties, etc. What do you think I would do? That is what the union is 1 big market. A market manufacturers want to be able to sell to without additional costs as it keeps their profits higher and their cost price lower. Increase the price of the product means reduced sales which hits their profits.
I know a lot of people aren't happy that UK is leaving the EU. It isn't good for big business at all. Why do you think may is trying so hard now to help all her friends (big business). Tories will always look after their rich friends.
I cannot see how with brexit not going for independence and staying in the EU would make us better off.
Companies moving north would sort out any employment and tax revenue issues.
But why would they start manufacturing goods in Scotland when they could go to E.g. Germany and massively reduce shipping costs, while still having the same trade benefits?
If the UK can get the global deals it wants, it will have a different angle for businesses to exploit. Which can be useful.
But Scotland is already running one of the biggest deficits in Europe. So the chances of them actually getting in, is slim.
If the UK can get the global deals it wants, it will have a different angle for businesses to exploit. Which can be useful.
But Scotland is already running one of the biggest deficits in Europe. So the chances of them actually getting in, is slim.
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Soldato
Scotland could benefit from the UKs global deals as well as the EUs deals as trading between the isles will likely stay the same. I imagine they will share a very similar agreement to UK and ROI pre-eu for trade and movement as that would be most convenient for citizens, government and businesses.
this, if there is a vote, i fully suspect them to vote to leave the uk, and so they should.
Caporegime
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How many of their employees would be up for moving to Germany and learning German? They would also still have the issue of bringing the cash back to England outside of the EU. Scotland will try and keep the £ which would be a huge reason why they would go to Scotland over others. Plus it's closer and they know how it works in the UK.
Soldato
No the population of the UK is ~64 million and the population of the EU without the UK is ~470 million.
Further more there is noting stopping the Scottish doing exactly what you are saying right now...yet still the UK is worth 4/4.5 times as much in trade - ~£50 billion vs £12.3billion for the EU.
Additionally the current subsidy via the Barnett Formula is worth more in direct cash terms (Last year £14.1 Billion ) than the entire trade with the EU. Remember that when we speak about trade we care only about the taxes raised from that trade (income tax, VAT, corporation tax etc etc) from sales and job creation because it is that that pays for our country.
What figure should we place on the taxes raised from the Trade with the EU? Generously £4 billion?
Again if this is to happen then it would already be happening. We have the trade stats @ £12.3 billion in trade with the EU. It is what it is there is no mystery.
There is no chance at all that this faith in "companies moving north" would outweigh the reduced trade with rUK or the Barnett subsidy. We're talking about potentially £17 - £20 billion in direct taxation lost. (Barnett and reduced taxes raised from reduced rUK trade).
Don't forget that the best that can happen is les then we ALL have today. The idea of treating any Scotland membership of the EU directly as the same thing as a brand new trade deal is silly when all it represents is the same trade with the EU and reduced trade with a much larger trade partner.
Soldato
Yes, because when those company employees are paid they spend none of that money in the country where they live. 100% of their wages are used to buy chinese tat from ebay and none of it provides any further benefit to their country.
Well to be frank, Scotland's roads are finally getting attention after all the Labour years... just got my council voting slip today, hopefully the last vestiges of Labour can be removed.
Soldato
Pardon? What does that have to do with a comment about how TAXES pay for things.
What do we care when people put money in bank accounts for example.
if you disagree a more logical approach would be to suggest a different figure for the taxes raised. After all even if you believe your argument you must also agree that the rUK trade/tax figure is 4/4.5 times that amount.
here is the revenue for onshore and offshore trade in Scotland:
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2016/08/2132
£53.7 billion in taxes raised in total that's 7.9% proportional taxes raised for 8.6% of the UK population - is anyone really going to suggest that there is a direct tax/trade relationship? lol.
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Soldato
Because taxes generated from trade are not confined to the company tax of the trading company and the income tax of the employees like you said. Bringing money into a country through trade will generate more than that.
People dont just put their money into bank accounts though - they buy things. Most of that spending will be done locally in the country where the live generating further taxes.
It's wrong for you to ignore any knock-on benefits from trade.
Caporegime
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when your talking about trade are you talking about how much trade scotland currently does with the rest of the UK and the EU? or UK trade as a whole within the UK and then with EU?
becuase thos figures would change dramatically when UK leaves the EU. and they would change dramatically again if scotland became independent and joined the EU.
cause and effect. the reason why they aren't doing them now because there is no need for english companies to move to scotland to gain access to the free market. they have it already on their door step.
you could use your argument to say for instance 10 years ago someone could have said. no need to worry about syrian migration. because if they wanted to leave syria they would have left already and people would be leaving today. you then have a war break out (cause) and now mass exodus of syria and surrounding areas (effect).
england is leaving the EU that is a fact. when that happens Britian will be worse off. that is also a fact as it will no longer have free trade with the rest of Europe.
if scotland broke off then joined the EU then yes you would see a positive effect for Scotland.
cause and effect. just because it's not happening already doesn't mean it will never happen. w need to have a few things put in place first like become independent and join the EU whilst retaining the £.
becuase thos figures would change dramatically when UK leaves the EU. and they would change dramatically again if scotland became independent and joined the EU.
cause and effect. the reason why they aren't doing them now because there is no need for english companies to move to scotland to gain access to the free market. they have it already on their door step.
you could use your argument to say for instance 10 years ago someone could have said. no need to worry about syrian migration. because if they wanted to leave syria they would have left already and people would be leaving today. you then have a war break out (cause) and now mass exodus of syria and surrounding areas (effect).
england is leaving the EU that is a fact. when that happens Britian will be worse off. that is also a fact as it will no longer have free trade with the rest of Europe.
if scotland broke off then joined the EU then yes you would see a positive effect for Scotland.
cause and effect. just because it's not happening already doesn't mean it will never happen. w need to have a few things put in place first like become independent and join the EU whilst retaining the £.