Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

[TW]Fox said:
Scotland didn't vote as Scotland, we all voted as the UK.

It was a horrible, stupid idea but sadly its done and all we are left with is imperfect options.

I am big fan of the EU but i struggle to understand what is better about being in the EU but not the UK rather than being in the UK but not the EU.

Leaving unions is bad. Let's stop doing it :(
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I didn't say Scotland would be better of out of the UK. Nationalism is a poison that exacerbates existing tensions between neighbours so the reaction of the Scottish Nationalists to Brexit, the "baby" of the English Nationalists, should not be a surprise to anyone. This same thing is happening in Mexico (http://fusion.net/story/370179/how-trumps-win-is-sparking-a-new-mexican-nationalism/) due to the political developments in the US or in Poland due to Russia's romance with Nationalism.

As long as these people continue to get votes, it will get worse.
 
aslco said:
Scot Labour may benefit from being separate to the English one, but i still suspect SNP would become Scotland's Fiana Fail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna_Fáil

Either way, Scotland will be left leaning and England will always be Libertarian / Right and that will be another thing among others that will take decades to even out and adjust. The UK has grown organically on the south being a built up Hub of service workers and the further North you go, the more natural resource and industry you get, suddenly cutting off the Head from the body or vice versa is a real issue. The UK leaving the EU is like a divorce / falling out with a club you are part of, whereas the UK breaking up is like losing limbs :O
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I would say Scottish Tories and greens would also come more into the game too, people would vote to keep the SNP in check imo but I'd also imagine that a lot of current SNP politicians would defect to the parties they actually align with!
I mentioned in a thread before that i believe the SNP have got where they are pretty much by default, Ruth Davidson is really the only credible politician to challenge them and she's made amazing headway for the Tories, but still completely unelectable, labour have really got to take a lot of blame for the current predicament, they are a joke in Scotland and can't form a decent opposition in Westminster, getting the terms of brexit checked in parliament would have meant sturgeon wouldn't have had any reason to try and play hardball, instead the commons blew it...
 
I'm not a Nationalist, but i will vote for 'Yes' should there be another referendum.

I'd have to be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome to vote 'NO'.
 
If I was a Scottish national I'd be very very tempted to vote out of the UK. However I think it's very very risky and probably the wrong decision. The Scottish economy isn't as diverse as the UK. And far too reliant on oil which may not be above 70usd for the forsee able future.

So yeah, I'd want to vote out, but probably bottle it and vote in
 
[TW]Fox said:
Scotland didn't vote as Scotland, we all voted as the UK.

It was a horrible, stupid idea but sadly its done and all we are left with is imperfect options.

I am big fan of the EU but i struggle to understand what is better about being in the EU but not the UK rather than being in the UK but not the EU.

Leaving unions is bad. Let's stop doing it :(
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Makes you wonder how the Czech Republic and Slovakia managed to split their union without the mass hysteria that seems to have gripped this country.
 
The second irony is Pro EU No voters balance the Anti-EU Yes voters. So the ideas they need to do this again because of Brexit doesn't actually change the indyref question from the 2014 result...based on polls. However as they say, to get from 33% yes in the polls to 45% yes by the time everyone voted last time suggests they could easily get over 50% this time.
 
scorza said:
Makes you wonder how the Czech Republic and Slovakia managed to split their union without the mass hysteria that seems to have gripped this country.
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Czechoslovakia hadn't existed quite as long as the Union, so not quite the same thing. But i agree with your point about hysteria.
 
Well no then. Considering the country is at its knees with regards to healthcare, I think throwing a stack of money at another referendum is a waste of cash. Selfish bunch.

Edit:
We, as in the UK?
 
leaskovski said:
Well no then. Considering the country is at its knees with regards to healthcare, I think throwing a stack of money at another referendum is a waste of cash. Selfish bunch.

Edit:
We, as in the UK?
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But imagine the hundreds of millions a week we can spend on the NHS that would normally go to those job thieving soon to be foreign scots?
 
413x said:
If I was a Scottish national I'd be very very tempted to vote out of the UK. However I think it's very very risky and probably the wrong decision. The Scottish economy isn't as diverse as the UK. And far too reliant on oil which may not be above 70usd for the forsee able future.

So yeah, I'd want to vote out, but probably bottle it and vote in
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But remember at the time of the last vote, the Scottish Economy, which is hugely reliant on oil, it was $120 a barrel. It's currently $50 a barrel.

When it was as low as $30 a one point - one economic adviser used the SNP figures from their own propaganda/budget papers, and showed that Scotland would have been facing a £7 billion deficit based on the SNP figures for Scottish economy, as it was all based on $120 a barrel.
 
If i was Scottish and in a comfortable position I would be willing to take the risk and aim to capitalise on Brexit:

Promote intentions to join the EU and become independent. Try to gain the spooked foreign investors currently using the UK as an English speaking EU hub, as well as take advantage of the benefits a movement and trade deal similar to what the UK and the R.O.I have had before the EU. That way Scotland keeps spooked foreign investors local to the islands and act as a hub to the UK and EU. Any trade advantages Scotland can get from the EU can trickle down to the UK and everyone keeps more or less the same sort of citizen status as now (similar to Irish people essentially having a settled status if they move here) with little need for expensive and fruitless additional border controls. People can argue about the EU imploding or whatever but when that happens, in or out, we will all feel the shock-wave and if need be Scotland can rely somewhat on the UKs trade deals they have made outside of Europe.

Think of it like a mini trading group, each with connections to larger different trading groups.

That said in any other position other than economically comfortable and Scottish, i would be against independence, as times ahead are uncertain and i dont want the boat rocked.
 
Irrespective of what I think of Scottish Independence in general I think the assumption that Scotland could remain in the EU post UK Brexit or quickly re-join is wildly optimistic. The oft repeated refrain from the Spanish is they would block any such move because of their own internal independence concerns. I think they would be willing to act spitefully towards Scotland because it is expedient for them to do so.
 
Spain would prevent us joining and TBH I can see several reasons why but the main two are. 1. We'd be a new Greece and 2. We'd encourage Catalonia.

Not going to happen and even if it did I'd likely be dead by then as it's going to be many decades before they got around to it - what state will the EU be in by then? Nobody knows.
 
Halfmad said:
Spain would prevent us joining and TBH I can see several reasons why but the main two are. 1. We'd be a new Greece and 2. We'd encourage Catalonia.

Not going to happen and even if it did I'd likely be dead by then as it's going to be many decades before they got around to it - what state will the EU be in by then? Nobody knows.
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I'm really really starting to hate the SNP. Bet the last election hasn't been paid off.
 
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