Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

[StuBob]

Isn't that mostly because the Scottish feel Labour didn't represent them after Blair and they now feel like Corbyn is too left wing?

I think the faculty they stood arm-in-arm with the Tories in the indyref#1 equivalent of project fear. I think most Labour voters switched to SNP, and from the people I know that was definitely something that happened.

You have to remember at the time people were told the only way Scotland would remain within the EU was through retaining membership of the UK. I don't think Brexit was even talked about back then let alone it being a considered possibility.

 

[scorza]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-independence-patriotic-news-agency-far-right

'England is finished' says far-right Scottish Nationalist campaigner.

 

[the_r_sole]

What I don't understand about SNP logic is that the Scottish people voted to stay in the U.K. knowing full well a leave vote was possible. And despite that they chose to stay in.

I maintain the SNP have no mandate. The circumstances have changed yes but if the people of Scotland chose to ignore them than that's their problem. The SNP themselves are just power hungry, that much is obvious.

They specifically said in their last campaign for the Scottish parliament that they would call for another referendum if there was a material change in the UK, such as Scotland getting forced out of the EU against their will - they got about twice as many votes as any other party at that election, I really don't get why people are surprised or confused by this...

Really the biggest problem is, at the moment, the SNP are the only vaguely electable party in Scotland - new labour went for the populist vote in England and that killed them up here, and they won't ever recover if they keep letting awful politicians like kezia dugdale run their party, they are completely rudderless and abandoned their core values too much to be trusted again imo. (The whole branch office thing really hurt them too)
Lib Dems killed themselves for a shot at fame too, they got punished heavily for shacking up with the Tories and now have lost trust too.
Tories are the Tories and get some support in Aberdeen and Edinburgh but that's about it.
So who else are people going to vote for, the SNP haven't had any massive disasters like labour had in power (or any that they have were things instigated by the labour administration...) and they have done exactly what new labour did, they have gone for the populist vote. If they ever did win independence then we would see the party disappear and all the politicians who have seized their opportunity to get voted in move to parties which actually align with their views (and don't just go after votes)
The SNP MPs and MSPs are incredibly well drilled, it's very rare that anyone deviates from the party line, and if they do they tend to be chucked out! When you compare that to the disarray seen in a lot of the other parties it's not that surprising that people choose to trust them to get stuff done (rightly or wrongly)

 

[Macro]

To be fair as the second half of your post says Scots really haven't got anyone to vote for if they have centre/left political leanings so The SNP could have pledged to have painted Holyrood Pink with Yellow stripes if they were re elected and still got in thereby allowing them to claim pink with yellow stripes is clearly the colour choice Scots have been crying out for and support.

 

[Diagro]

They voted to stay.
With that stay they voted to be united with the rest of us no matter what we do.

Then we vote to leave the EU and now the SNP changes their mind?

Meh. Politics

 

[Nasher]

They are in a spin now since I think many Scotts would rather stay in the UK than be in the EU on their own.

 

[the_r_sole]

To be fair as the second half of your post says Scots really haven't got anyone to vote for if they have centre/left political leanings so The SNP could have pledged to have painted Holyrood Pink with Yellow stripes if they were re elected and still got in thereby allowing them to claim pink with yellow stripes is clearly the colour choice Scots have been crying out for and support.

You're not far off at all tbh - they have managed to swallow up the centre left so if there's some bits people don't agree with, it still doesn't lose them a vote as there's no one else there to vote for..
I know that some people think the SNP are a single issue party but really they aren't, they can't afford to be and thats the reason they are still winning elections. Their voter base aren't all independence supporters anymore than other party supporters are remain voters, making that assumption misunderstands the situation in scotland entirely.
No politician speaks for all of scotland, but it's only opposition parties that are making the claims about that

 

[Rannoch]

I voted to stay in the U.K and leave the EU. Nicola the dictator needs to go.

 

[Usher]

If it ends up with another referendum as to whether the union is broken up then should not everyone in the UK and not just the Scotts have an option to vote??

 

[Schlong&Stable]

If it ends up with another referendum as to whether the union is broken up then should not everyone in the UK and not just the Scotts have an option to vote??

It's not a vote on whether the Union is broken up, it's a vote on whether Scotland wants to leave. So, no. Although there shouldn't be another referendum anyway. The UK government should turn its attention toward crushing the SNP and restoring a Unionist majority in Scotland.

 

[pastymuncher]

What I don't understand about SNP logic is that the Scottish people voted to stay in the U.K. knowing full well a leave vote was possible. And despite that they chose to stay in.

I maintain the SNP have no mandate. The circumstances have changed yes but if the people of Scotland chose to ignore them than that's their problem. The SNP themselves are just power hungry, that much is obvious.

What they are doing is taking Scotlands vote to remain in the EU and twisting it as a mandate to leave the UK and remain in the EU even though leaving the UK would mean we leave the EU anyway. It's as if they are using Brexit as a cover because they know we would be out of the EU by voting for independance. Their supporters can't get their heads around the fact that by leaving the UK we will be out of the EU. Everyone I have talked to along with several people interviewed on the tv the other night has said "how dare they take my vote to remain in the EU as a reason to leave the UK". I am sick and fed up with that vile little witch and her party. Currently we have 11 SNP council members in Moray council and it will be interesting to see how many there are after our local elections in May. I know it's not the same as government elections but these idiots can't think for themselves and always vote on matters in line with party policies with them all giving the same vote. This has resulted in much controversy over the current term and it will be interesting to see if the people have finally had enough of them. This may also give Sturgeon a wake up call if they lose control over serveral councils.

 

[StriderX]

What they are doing is taking Scotlands vote to remain in the EU and twisting it as a mandate to leave the UK and remain in the EU even though leaving the UK would mean we leave the EU anyway. It's as if they are using Brexit as a cover because they know we would be out of the EU by voting for independance. Their supporters can't get their heads around the fact that by leaving the UK we will be out of the EU. Everyone I have talked to along with several people interviewed on the tv the other night has said "how dare they take my vote to remain in the EU as a reason to leave the UK". I am sick and fed up with that vile little witch and her party. Currently we have 11 SNP council members in Moray council and it will be interesting to see how many there are after our local elections in May. I know it's not the same as government elections but these idiots can't think for themselves and always vote on matters in line with party policies with them all giving the same vote. This has resulted in much controversy over the current term and it will be interesting to see if the people have finally had enough of them. This may also give Sturgeon a wake up call if they lose control over serveral councils.

How is voting on party policy any different from the other parties? Pray tell.

 

[Usher]

It's not a vote on whether the Union is broken up, it's a vote on whether Scotland wants to leave. So, no. Although there shouldn't be another referendum anyway. The UK government should turn its attention toward crushing the SNP and restoring a Unionist majority in Scotland.

Is that not the same thing, Scotland votes to leave = the union is broken up

 

[mmj_uk]

The thing is even when an independent Scotland joins the EU the terms will far worse than the United Kingdom currently has, Scotland will be even more of a vassal state. That's why I think that any referendum should be a choice between remaining in the United Kingdom or rejoining the EU, "independence" is misleading because SNP are ultimately all for the EU. If you put a clause in the independence referendum that Scotland must remain independent SNP wouldn't agree to it, fact.

 

[cu3ed]

What I dont get is when in a referendum..where a vote from 1 = 1.
The SNP make is sound like 100% of the EU vote was to stay in the EU. 38%...thats a pretty good %, voted to leave have been pushed aside.
Im still trying to work out if Scotland is doing better in any department under the SNP gov.
All this seems very much like " everything else is falling apart..quick..distract the people from the bread and butter issues".

 

[the_r_sole]

What I dont get is when in a referendum..where a vote from 1 = 1.
The SNP make is sound like 100% of the EU vote was to stay in the EU. 38%...thats a pretty good %, voted to leave have been pushed aside.
Im still trying to work out if Scotland is doing better in any department under the SNP gov.
All this seems very much like " everything else is falling apart..quick..distract the people from the bread and butter issues".

Just like the tories telling us "brexit means brexit" from a prime minister who wasn't subject to a general election vote, for a vote where 46.6% of voters did not support it but we are now facing a hard brexit and complete uncertainty?

 

[linktoinsanity]

I don't mind if Scotland leave (though it would be a shame to say goodbye to the Union Jack), however if they do that should mean that they don't get any payouts from England either, meaning they can fund themselves.

However, from what I hear from the few Scots that I know is that they want to remain and remain won last time, are the SNP going to keep asking for a revote until they get what they want?

Politicians.

 

[the_r_sole]

I don't mind if Scotland leave (though it would be a shame to say goodbye to the Union Jack), however if they do that should mean that they don't get any payouts from England either, meaning they can fund themselves.

However, from what I hear from the few Scots that I know is that they want to remain and remain won last time, are the SNP going to keep asking for a revote until they get what they want?

Politicians.

If they keep having it as a manifesto commitment and keep winning elections then it's likely they will continue to keep to their manifesto commitments....

 

[scorza]

I don't mind if Scotland leave (though it would be a shame to say goodbye to the Union Jack), however if they do that should mean that they don't get any payouts from England either, meaning they can fund themselves.

However, from what I hear from the few Scots that I know is that they want to remain and remain won last time, are the SNP going to keep asking for a revote until they get what they want?

Politicians.

There's an easy way to avoid that; don't vote for the SNP.

 

[linktoinsanity]

If they keep having it as a manifesto commitment and keep winning elections then it's likely they will continue to keep to their manifesto commitments....

So it's the Scottish people's fault for voting them back in?