Soldato
Well, yes obviously it will have nothing to do with the UK. Plus Westminster will have no influence over Scotland. That would be the point of independence
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Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.
Well, yes obviously it will have nothing to do with the UK. Plus Westminster will have no influence over Scotland. That would be the point of independence
It is quite amusing watching Jimmy Krankie throw her toys at every opportunity. I wonder what the Scots would think of her if she... you know, put them first in her political agenda, instead of incessantly trying to stick it to the man.
Prob hate her less, same as everyone else really. Vile woman.
I tend to think it's a good thing to have a strong leader of the Scottish government looking after and pressing for the best deal possible for Scotland, that's absolutely the right thing to do. It's the distraction of the obsession with independence which does no one, including Scots any good if it's wheeled out at every possible opportunity. The SNP, I think, have made a serious misjudgement this time by wheeling out the referendum thing again quite so soon and potentially undermining quite what a serious option it is for Scotland by making it into a political bargaining counter to be used at every opportunity.
Scotland voted to remain in the UK, so we should focus on making the best of that decision and get on with it for the time being to see over time how that works for Scotland. There's no reason independence couldn't be revisited in 10 or 20 years time as the "once in a generation" suggested once there's some perspective evening out the ups and downs of the political and economic cycle. Using it as a stick to beat the rest of the UK with every time a collective UK decision doesn't politically go the way you want is just going to have less and less impact every time which would be a shame for quite such an important issue.
Scotland voted to remain in the UK, so we should focus on making the best of that decision and get on with it for the time being to see over time how that works for Scotland. There's no reason independence couldn't be revisited in 10 or 20 years time as the "once in a generation" suggested once there's some perspective evening out the ups and downs of the political and economic cycle. Using it as a stick to beat the rest of the UK with every time a collective UK decision doesn't politically go the way you want is just going to have less and less impact every time which would be a shame for quite such an important issue.
Well, yes obviously it will have nothing to do with the UK. Plus Westminster will have no influence over Scotland. That would be the point of independence
Having no say in UK affairs would be bad for Scotland though. The UK would completely over-shadow them as a competitor.
It's too early after the last referendum, they're just using the EU as an excuse.
It was a 10% split in 2014, seems the SNP want to ignore the wishes of the Scottish people when it suits them.
They can't have an independence referendum every time the UK makes an decision they disagree with, will they do they same with the EU? Of course not, they're single minded and only want one thing, they don't care about the consequences at this point.
That's of course if they join the EU, because that's unlikely itself, Spain has already said they will veto Scotland joining as they want to send a clear message to regions in Spain that want independence.
Part of me actually wants them to leave just so they end up in limbo, no UK, no EU... the Scottish economy will be screwed and Sturgeon and the SNP will be left in a horrible situation.
It was a 10% split in 2014, seems the SNP want to ignore the wishes of the Scottish people when it suits them.
They can't have an independence referendum every time the UK makes an decision they disagree with, will they do they same with the EU? Of course not, they're single minded and only want one thing, they don't care about the consequences at this point.
That's of course if they join the EU, because that's unlikely itself, Spain has already said they will veto Scotland joining as they want to send a clear message to regions in Spain that want independence.
Part of me actually wants them to leave just so they end up in limbo, no UK, no EU... the Scottish economy will be screwed and Sturgeon and the SNP will be left in a horrible situation.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
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I have to say New Labour were the gift that just doesn't stop giving. Everything they have touched has been a slow-motion car crash except with the inertia of a country of 60million.
Devolution was a bad idea done really badly and unfairly and it is coming home to roost.
Devolution was a bad idea done really badly and unfairly and it is coming home to roost.
You're having a laugh right? two people are responsible for this mess, David Cameron and Nick Clegg.
The decisions they made have put us down this path, actually I would add Ed Miliband to that list as he screwed over the Labour party so we have no opposition.
If the Lib Dem's supported Labour and Gordon Brown ( Scottish!!) got a full term it's highly unlikely we would be in the position we're currently in.
Conservative voters love to blame others.....
Caporegime
I agree with PlacidCasual - Scottish devolution led to the rise of the SNP, who have ruthlessly exploited the politics of division and xenophobia, though been clever enough to blame "Westminster" rather than "the English".
What you're asking for is for the LibDems to have gone into coalition with the party that finished second rather than the one that finished first? Oh and I think you'll find you have Nicola Sturgeon to thank for screwing Ed Milliband out of the 2015 election.
They should have sided with the party that the majority of their own voters would have supported. They never, and as a result the lib dems are now irrelevant and may never recover. Vote Lib dems, get conservative...
Nobody liked Ed Milliband, he never stood a chance. Even Labour voters wouldn't vote for him, they voted UKIP in England and Wales and SNP in Scotland.
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Caporegime
Yeah right - propping up a Brown government that finished second in the general election. The LibDems would have been crucified and in even more deep stuff than they are atm (I expect they'll recover as they jump on the ******** bandwagon). BTW Lab-LibDem wouldn't have had enough seats to form a government in 2010.
A big, big reason why no-one voted for Ed Milliband is because they were worried about a Labour-SNP coalition governing the country, Sturgeon gave the Tories all the ammunition they needed to destroy Labour.
Lib Dem voters are far more likely to vote Labour than conservative, that's why their in the current position, their voters feel betrayed and are unlikely to risk voting for them again, siding with Labour would have been less damaging.
Would SNP / Labour really have been such a bad thing considering what we have now? IMO the damage was already done with the Conservative / Lib Dem coalition.
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Caporegime
How do you know that Lib Dem voters are far more likely to vote Labour than Conservative? There's me thinking they're in this mess because they betrayed their young voters on tuition fees.
Yes I think a Labour-SNP coalition would have been a disaster for the country, I hope Milliband would have been true to his word when he publically told Sturgeon that he wouldn't enter coalition with her, but I for one didn't feel comfortable taking that risk so didn't vote Labour.
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2003
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- 8,052
So how would independence benefit them if they lose their funding from and political influence in Westminster?
I am struggling to understand the benefits bar a political play for supremacy.
Soldato
The first question I have, a completely ignorant fool granted, would be if Scotland got independence, how would they make the finances work? Ok you have gas and oil, but these are short term like 50 years or less? What else does Scotland produce? Fishing? As far as I can see, what they produce aside from tourism is not much, the natural resources will dry up then what? Be the Half-starved relative who voted to leave then returns cap in hand? I like the way Sturgeon is so proud of her nation, yet most of what is happening in Scotland investment -wise is down to Westminster. I'm yet to hear anything she has planned for an independent Scotland, it's all Westminster cheating us etc.. Nevermind, 20 years time I can take the grandchildren up to Scotland to see the most prolific Windfarm ever (as in over every square metre)
Your post had an ounce of credibility, and then you went and said something stupid.
The SNP are a protest, single issue party. They are not a credible or competent party. You'd struggle to find any measure that ranks them as such.
They must be doing something right, they keep getting elected and recently sent a record number of MPs to Westminster. If that is not a an appreciable measure I don't know what is. The other parties in Scotland have no chance of being elected anytime soon and independence would likely see the SNP break up with its current members realigning to other parties in line with their political views.
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Isn't that mostly because the Scottish feel Labour didn't represent them after Blair and they now feel like Corbyn is too left wing?
- Joined
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What I don't understand about SNP logic is that the Scottish people voted to stay in the U.K. knowing full well a leave vote was possible. And despite that they chose to stay in.
I maintain the SNP have no mandate. The circumstances have changed yes but if the people of Scotland chose to ignore them than that's their problem. The SNP themselves are just power hungry, that much is obvious.
I maintain the SNP have no mandate. The circumstances have changed yes but if the people of Scotland chose to ignore them than that's their problem. The SNP themselves are just power hungry, that much is obvious.