Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:30

D3K said:
A year before the vote, my grandad shut me down in front of the whole family for "trying to brainwash folk" while discussing the possible merits of independence. I hadn't even enthused an opinion, just stated facts. He and my grandma were staunch unionists.
Turns out the majority of my family were too. That region got the 2nd highest remain vote among the counties.

Cut to today, everyone I spoke to is now for independence. The lying and scaremongering from westminster was bad enough, and brexit was the last straw. You may be surprised.

Then wtf was the point in the first referendum? Are a huge number of Scots that thick that they didn't see it coming even after DC announced in January 2013 that there'd be a referendum? If staying or leaving the EU was that critical why even hold the first one? Why not wait until after the decision was made?

It was either nothing but a massively expensive, pointless waste of time, or the pro-leave campaign are using Brexit as an excuse to try and get their way.

So we either have a bunch of morons or a bunch of babies.

StriderX · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:32

Or people who believed that the UK would still stay?

Ie the literal difference between 62-38 for remain in scotland and 54-46 for leave in England, is important here.

=XDC=FluphyBunny · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:33

One caveat, I believe any vote for independence should result in total and absolute independence from the remaining UK. No half way measures no joint currency not ties outside of renegotiated trade deals etc.

As a northerner I feel it would be a shame to lose Scotland (we tend to have a greater affinity with Scotland than London) but if it happens it needs to be a clean break.

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:34

StriderX said:
Or people who believed that the UK would still stay?

Which was a stupid thing to do wasn't it? Because they were utterly wrong.

Like I said, if the potential outcome was that important then why not just wait until after the vote and the outcome was known?

Tom_ed1987 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:38

All being well:
Sturgeon: Please mister can I have permission to hold another legally-binding referendum on independence?
Gov: No

D3K · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:38

Dis86 said:
Then wtf was the point in the first referendum? Are a huge number of Scots that thick that they didn't see it coming even after DC announced in January 2013 that there'd be a referendum? If staying or leaving the EU was that critical why even hold the first one? Why not wait until after the decision was made?

It was either nothing but a massively expensive, pointless waste of time, or the pro-leave campaign are using Brexit as an excuse to try and get their way.

So we either have a bunch of morons or a bunch of babies.

So you wanna insult my family now? You're clearly hurt by this.

And wtf are you smoking son? "DC" did not see this coming. The WORLD did not see it coming. Wind your neck in.

But if you wanna talk about thick, let's talk about all the mugs that believed pictures of Bojo on the side of a bus promising +£350m / week in the UK coffers was true. This is what happens when you don't dish out free tertiary education

the_r_sole · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:38

Dis86 said:
Then wtf was the point in the first referendum? Are a huge number of Scots that thick that they didn't see it coming even after DC announced in January 2013 that there'd be a referendum? If staying or leaving the EU was that critical why even hold the first one? Why not wait until after the decision was made?

It was either nothing but a massively expensive, pointless waste of time, or the pro-leave campaign are using Brexit as an excuse to try and get their way.

So we either have a bunch of morons or a bunch of babies.

I think you might be getting all your dates mixed up a bit there and forgetting some other bits like a general election... But hey we're only babies or morons up here, if only we could all see into the future then you might actually have a point rather than chucking out mindless insults...

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:40

D3K said:
So you wanna insult my family now? You're clearly hurt by this.

And wtf are you smoking son? "DC" did not see this coming. The WORLD did not see it coming. Wind your neck in.

But if you wanna talk about thick, let's talk about all the mugs that believed pictures of Bojo on the side of a bus promising +£350m / week in the UK coffers was true. This is what happens when you don't dish out free tertiary education

I didn't say DC saw it coming, I said he announced the referendum. You're the one who seems to be smoking something...It's irrespective of whether he saw it coming. Those that announced the referendum didn't have the sense to think 'oh, this upcoming vote may alter the decision of some'. Thick as mince.

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:42

the_r_sole said:
I think you might be getting all your dates mixed up a bit there and forgetting some other bits like a general election... But hey we're only babies or morons up here, if only we could all see into the future then you might actually have a point rather than chucking out mindless insults...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

You sure about that? Check the date on the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014#Date

"The Scottish government announced on 21 March 2013 that the referendum would be held on 18 September 2014"

So after David Cameron announced that he'd be holding an in/out referendum.

Like I said...moronic decision.

D3K · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:45

Dis86 said:
I didn't say DC saw it coming, I said he announced the referendum. You're the one who seems to be smoking something...It's irrespective of whether he saw it coming. Those that announced the referendum didn't have the sense to think 'oh, this upcoming vote may alter the decision of some'. Thick as mince.

Why would anyone make a vote on a supposition 2 years in the future, especially when they and every single poll on the planet assumed the result would be the opposite?

You're drunk and/or trolling. Have fun, wee man.

teaboy5 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:45

I see SF have now said there should be a border poll now as well.

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:47

D3K said:
Why would anyone make a vote on a supposition 2 years in the future, especially when they and every single poll on the planet assumed the result would be the opposite?

You're drunk and/or trolling. Have fun, wee man.

Lol. And there you go showing my point. You couldn't wait 2 years for something so fundamental to the future of your country?

They worked on assumptions. Stupidity. Never assume anything.

SlyReaper · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:48

teaboy5 said:
Does Scotland really think they can "just" join the EU after they leave the UK? They must be drinking some strong stuff up there.

There are those in the EU who want the UK punished for voting to leave. I can very well see them offering to fast-track Scotland's membership just to make it more likely the UK fractures.

the_r_sole · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:49

Dis86 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

You sure about that? Check the date on the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014#Date

"The Scottish government announced on 21 March 2013 that the referendum would be held on 18 September 2014"

So after David Cameron announced that he'd be holding an in/out referendum.

Like I said...moronic decision.

David Cameron was in minority government and said he would call it if he was elected at the next general election, so you think the population of Scotland should have been able to predict the results of a general election a year after the vote and then the result of a potential referendum another two years after that.... And your pointing fingers calling people morons?!

Not forgetting of course that the same guy announcing the referendum was the same guy telling the Scottish people that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote to remain! So we not only had to see into the future but also pick and choose which bits of which speeches from Cameron to trust...

Dis86 · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:50

the_r_sole said:
David Cameron was in minority government and said he would call it if he was elected at the next general election, so you think the population of Scotland should have been able to predict the results of a general election a year after the vote and then the result of a potential referendum another two years after that.... And your pointing fingers calling people morons?!

No, I think it would have been prudent to wait.

As it was...who was wrong here? Oh yes...those who called for the independence referendum to be held then.

Remember folks...once in a generation!

Uther · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:51

teaboy5 said:
I see SF have now said there should be a border poll now as well.

Inevitable really.

D3K · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:52

the_r_sole said:
David Cameron was in minority government and said he would call it if he was elected at the next general election, so you think the population of Scotland should have been able to predict the results of a general election a year after the vote and then the result of a potential referendum another two years after that.... And your pointing fingers calling people morons?!

No. he's saying the population of Scotland should have taken into account the date and result of the general election, assumed a tory win, and then guestimated the date and result of the brexit vote.

D3K · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:53

Dis86 said:
No, I think it would have been prudent to wait.

As it was...who was wrong here? Oh yes...those who called for the independence referendum to be held then.

Remember folks...once in a generation!

If the general consensus was that brexit would be a failed vote, which would essentially foster a feeling of unity, why would they want their separatist vote to come after that? Makes no sense. You're mental.

eddiemcgarrigle · 13 Mar 2017 at 22:54

Malevolence said:
Without the billions of pounds that Westminster pumps into it, Scotland will never be able to survive as a sovereign nation. Just how will they recoup the lost monies?

I think you forget the billions of pounds that Scotland pumps into Westminster and official figures do not take into account that we would not be paying for various English building schemes or defence vanity projects and neither does it take into account the various taxes that are levied on Scottish goods such as whisky.