Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

Lol this thread.

The mandate for a second referendum is there - people voted believing that with the UK we'd stay in Europe. Things have changed dramatically and the original promises no longer apply. Therefore, asking the question again seems reasonable.

As for the whole Scotland rejoining thing, it seems so back and forth. Some officials in the EU says no problem, some say you need to rejoin. I don't think it is a cut and dry answer until the situation actually presents itself (which is dangerous, like Brexit, but...)
 
Kaladon said:
[..] EVEL made that even worse. We cant vote re something in England but you can still vote to effect change in Scotland? How is this a fair and representative system?
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Given England the same power as Scotland is fairer and more representative than what existed before, when Scotland had that power and England didn't. Your statement is the opposite of the truth. Since 1977, Scottish MPs could vote on something in England but not vice versa.
 
D3K said:
Me too, make the decision for them since they can't do it themselves and are so reliant on suckling your teet. (am I doing it right?)
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You might be "doing it right" for your own point of view, but that's for you to decide. Is what you wrote above your point of view?

If you think you're entitled to decide my point of view for me, you're doing it wrong whatever you say.
 
Maybe the UK should sort out a proper federal system like Canada, Australia etc.. then this would be less likely to be an issue. UK stays together but the constituent parts get more control over domestic issues etc..

Scotland becoming independent is much less feasible without EU membership, EFTA/EEA membership might work.
 
SlyReaper said:
While most Scots voted to remain in the EU, there's still that 38% who voted to leave. The vast majority of those people are going to vote No. They got the result they voted for, and the only way that result doesn't get snatched away from them is if Scotland remains part of the UK. So for the Yes vote to win, it needs a substantial majority of the remaining 62% to choose EU membership over UK membership. I don't think they'll get it.
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It has got very little to do with EU membership vs UK membership since an independent Scotland doesn't have much chance of joining the EU thanks to Spain wanting to veto it.
 
dowie said:
Maybe the UK should sort out a proper federal system like Canada, Australia etc.. then this would be less likely to be an issue. UK stays together but the constituent parts get more control over domestic issues etc..
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Id be kinda fine with this, but would want it bound by law before surrendering the issue. Not after the lies and promises from last go round.
 
abbviper said:
If there is another referendum and individual regions/islands vote to remain part of Great Britain, will those islands/regoins be allowed to remain? Afterall if they vote no, why should be forced kicking an screaming out of GB?
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Don't you mean United Kingdom? Scotland leaving Great Britain would require planetary engineering on a scale that Slartibartfast himself would be proud of.
 
Don't prospective new members of the EU need the consent of every existing member state? Spain will never agree since that may offer Catalunya a route to independence. Scotland may have to fudge retaining the existing UK membership.
 
Hmmm,
Weekend International Rugby Union results:

The England men give Scotland a shellacking 61-21
The England U20s beat Scotland 33-5
The England U18s beat Scotland 31-17
The England women thrash Scotland with a 64-0 drubbing (Kay Wilson scoring a record individual seven tries)


Monday morning Nicola Sturgeon declares attempt for Indyref2, sound like nothing more than bad loser syndrome if you ask me.........................................
 
Scotland have very little chance of EU membership without plunging their citizens into poverty.

Scotland's deficit is the worst in the developed world. £15bn and it amounts to around 10% of current GDP. The EU cutoff point is 3.4. It's still possible to get in, but the EU would demand cuts in expenditure worse than have been imposed on Greece. The country would be plunged into poverty, especially without the rest of the UK pumping money in.

The EU issue is a total red herring, she is using it as a handy excuse. The timing says it all. She's making sure it's done before we leave the EU simply in case we actually make a success of it and that will put the issue to bed once and for all. She and the rest of her poisonous little party will sacrifice the well being of their own citizens for that magic pipe dream of independence.

Hav a gander at this if you wish http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tland-would-have-cut-spending-increase-taxes/
 
robfosters said:
Scotland have very little chance of EU membership without plunging their citizens into poverty.

Scotland's deficit is the worst in the developed world. £15bn and it amounts to around 10% of current GDP. The EU cutoff point is 3.4. It's still possible to get in, but the EU would demand cuts in expenditure worse than have been imposed on Greece. The country would be plunged into poverty, especially without the rest of the UK pumping money in.

The EU issue is a total red herring, she is using it as a handy excuse. The timing says it all. She's making sure it's done before we leave the EU simply in case we actually make a success of it and that will put the issue to bed once and for all. She and the rest of her poisonous little party will sacrifice the well being of their own citizens for that magic pipe dream of independence.

Hav a gander at this if you wish http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tland-would-have-cut-spending-increase-taxes/
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I'm pretty sure they did say they would have to increase taxes the last time too, it's accepted that their desire for independence would result in a few years of instability (but no one knows how long)
However the same can be said of the UK at this moment, no one knows how damaging or for how long the repurcussions of brexit will continue on for, so the choice for Scotland isn't stability Vs instability now, it's what kind of instability do you want, do you want the driver seat or the passenger seat
 
Lets be honest here, she is doing this purely because she wants to retain her grip on power, she knows she's picked the worst timing but needs to head off any leadership challenges from her party.

The two big issues with this are that firstly she bangs on about Scotland being ignored while ignoring the fact that only 38% of Scottish voters were in favour of remaining part of the EU (the rest either voted to leave or didn't care enough either way to vote) and so the chances that this has improved the desire for independence are low (it may have even weakened it).

Secondly she bangs on about how the Tories may end up in power until 2030 but ignores the fact she covertly supported them against Labour in 2015 and was instrumental in Miliband doing even worse than Brown did in 2010.
 
Even though I'm Scottish I dislike Nicola Sturgeon with a passion ; she is an odious individual, who along with her party, the SNP, are prepared to sacrifice the well-being of the country for their goal of "independence". Seems rather backwards to me to claim independence from the UK, to only want to shackle itself to an even larger entity. The SNP lost the original referendum - they should accept the result and move on, stop spreading more uncertainty, and start actually trying to improve the country by tackling the issues that are really important eg. improving funding to public services.
 
Much like the first referendum i'm indifferent to the result, it literally makes no difference to me whether they stay or go. If the majority of the voting Scots think they can make a go of it, crack on.

I'd say the same thing the first time in that 'Get it over with and move on' but it was only 2/3 years ago, is this going to be a regular thing?
 
xaldub said:
Even though I'm Scottish I dislike Nicola Sturgeon with a passion ; she is an odious individual, who along with her party, the SNP, are prepared to sacrifice the well-being of the country for their goal of "independence". Seems rather backwards to me to claim independence from the UK, to only want to shackle itself to an even larger entity. The SNP lost the original referendum - they should accept the result and move on, stop spreading more uncertainty, and start actually trying to improve the country by tackling the issues that are really important eg. improving funding to public services.
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Exactly what I pointed out to someone earlier in the thread. It just makes no sense!
Well unless it's nothing but a thinly veiled ploy just to get another bite at the cherry so to speak...
 
McBain said:
Much like the first referendum i'm indifferent to the result, it literally makes no difference to me whether they stay or go. If the majority of the voting Scots think they can make a go of it, crack on.

I'd say the same thing the first time in that 'Get it over with and move on' but it was only 2/3 years ago, is this going to be a regular thing?
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They don't, the result will be the same as last time with a marginal swing further towards the "No" camp. The sooner it happens the better, it's not fully happened yet, but the brainwashed SNP followers are finally starting to see that it really is Independence at all costs as Scotland continues to deteriorate all the time they are in power.
 
HummuH1 said:
They don't, the result will be the same as last time with a marginal swing further towards the "No" camp. The sooner it happens the better, it's not fully happened yet, but the brainwashed SNP followers are finally starting to see that it really is Independence at all costs as Scotland continues to deteriorate all the time they are in power.
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I was reading a few articles on this last night and the polls suggest most Scots don't support independence, and that that most don't even want a referendum. Feels like Sturgeon is ramming this down people's throats when they don't even want it.

But then I guess the polls have hardly been accurate recently.....
 
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