Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

I personally hope the Scottish Greens withdraw their support in the Scottish parliament so we don't even get as far as Theresa May having to make a decision. I just don't see the appetite for another secessionist referendum right now.
 
So you expect Scots do nothing as Westminster turns increasingly right-wing and tries to drag Scotland down with it? All the lies from 2014 have been exposed and promises made by Westminster have come to naught. So much for a nation of equals, the closest thing to a federal state or the most powerful devolved government on earth.
 
McBain said:
I was reading a few articles on this last night and the polls suggest most Scots don't support independence, and that that most don't even want a referendum. Feels like Sturgeon is ramming this down people's throats when they don't even want it.

But then I guess the polls have hardly been accurate recently.....
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The SNP hope for Complacency from those who don't want to become independent...those voting Yes will consistently come out in their droves while the real danger for the No voters is becoming disconnected with the whole process and not actually voting.

It's an absolutely absurd situation to find ourselves in and it will be interesting to see when Teresa May allows it to happen, I reckon she'll make there be a wait until after the process is complete.
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
In a similar way to the perverse enjoyment I got at the Americans being lumbered with the very thing some of them voted for, part of me does want the same for Sturgeon supporters. She'll just keep going until she gets what some of the country wants. She's not even pretending otherwise these days. It's a tiresome ransom with little apparent thought put into the likely outcome of no EU membership, no part in the Union, basically insular, barren and friendless.

I feel sorry for my family and friends who object to a second chance at what was supposed to be once in a generation but I think it's heavily likely that the SNP will get their way sooner or later, and finally divide the country in two AND have to deal with the outcome.

I also love the pretence at 'civilised discussion' in the thread title and then a tirade in the OP's 2nd paragraph. Got a genuine LOL from me.
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so pleased i wasn't the only one to notice this.
 
jrodga2k5 said:
The SNP hope for Complacency from those who don't want to become independent...those voting Yes will consistently come out in their droves while the real danger for the No voters is becoming disconnected with the whole process and not actually voting.
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Well, it worked for Brexit campaigners lol.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
I personally hope the Scottish Greens withdraw their support in the Scottish parliament so we don't even get as far as Theresa May having to make a decision. I just don't see the appetite for another secessionist referendum right now.
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The problem there is that the Greens hate UK energy and defence policies - which aren't devolved, so they are pushing for independence as much (or even more so) than the SNP
 
jrodga2k5 said:
I'm hoping it doesn't work for the SNP! Lol!

To be fair this has the potential to be really divisive and nasty campaign.
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I am actually hoping that we can get to a fairly mature level of debate with it, it happened later in the last campaign (apart from the very end) but there was actually some really good debating being done on the real issues for a while - hopefully we can get back to that quickly and actually have some info on the table rather than the brexit approach of not giving any hard facts and letting people shout about issues that actually had nothing to do with the vote
 
touch said:
https://greens.scot/news/greens-welcome-referendum-call
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This is the issue, she knew she was guaranteed to get this through the Scottish Parliament due to the Greens. While the SNP continue to enjoy this 'majority' partnership Indpendence will always be on the agenda as they can force through the vote whenever they see fit.

I just hope Teresa May calls it right on when the referendum is allowed to happen.
 
the_r_sole said:
The problem there is that the Greens hate UK energy and defence policies - which aren't devolved, so they are pushing for independence as much (or even more so) than the SNP
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They also said in their manifesto they'd need 1 million signatures before supporting another referendum. You're right though, it's extremely unlikely she'll lose the vote, but all it would take is a few Greens or SNP not to back to the order and they'd lose it.
 
the_r_sole said:
I am actually hoping that we can get to a fairly mature level of debate with it, it happened later in the last campaign (apart from the very end) but there was actually some really good debating being done on the real issues for a while - hopefully we can get back to that quickly and actually have some info on the table rather than the brexit approach of not giving any hard facts and letting people shout about issues that actually had nothing to do with the vote
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That would be the hope mate but from what can be seen across Social Media platforms already suggests to me that it won't quite get to that point of a reasoned and mature level of debate.

If the Gap is so small between both potential results there will be a lot of aggressive campaigning which may not lend itself well to a mature debate.

Hard facts are going to be difficult to establish for both sides of the argument early doors and the funny thing is when the Brexit terms are set then you know what package but what Independence means and provides us with will still be a hard picture to paint.
 
eddiemcgarrigle said:
So you expect Scots do nothing as Westminster turns increasingly right-wing and tries to drag Scotland down with it? All the lies from 2014 have been exposed and promises made by Westminster have come to naught. So much for a nation of equals, the closest thing to a federal state or the most powerful devolved government on earth.
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Completely agree, we're not a nation of equals, Scotland has it much better than the rest of the country
 
jrodga2k5 said:
I'm hoping it doesn't work for the SNP!
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I expect that the SNP will get their way.

-Most of those who voted Yes last time did so for idealistic/nationalistic reasons, this wont have changed.

-Some who voted No did so because they wanted to stay in the EU, some may change their mind.
-Some who voted No did so because of some specific promise before the vote which has now not been followed up, some may change their mind.*
-Some who voted No did so because they felt they had more of a connection with the English than Europeans, after the Brexit vote opinion of the English has shifted slightly and some may change their mind.
-Some will change their mind out of spite of being told this was the way to stay in EU and now being removed from it, regardless of their actual views on the EU.

*whether or not you think the 'broken promises' are fact or not doesnt matter.
 
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why do the SNP always go on about a conservative government in power who Scotland didn't vote for? i think that's called democracy. a lot of people never voted for Tony Blair but got landed with him for 13 years. when it suits the SNP they like to hold up their right to democracy and when it doesn't suit them they complain that their voice isn't being heard.

they are a poisonous divisive party. yes the UK is heading into uncharted waters but as a whole we have the financial muscle to deal with what may come. The SNP would have Scotland double up on its risk and bit off the hand that feeds it. madness.

these continued calls for independence make the rUK sick of the sound of constant bleating, hence the "good riddance" argument. perhaps Scotland should look at the act of the union and the reasons why Scotland is part of a United Kingdom in the first place.
 
gjrc said:
why do the SNP always go on about a conservative government in power who Scotland didn't vote for?
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The comical fact is that the conservatives did better in 2015 than in 2010 thanks largely to Sturgeon campaigning that she was going to make Miliband PM and he would be subservient to the SNP, it's almost like this was all part of a plan she had or something :rolleyes:
 
I don't like this Scot bashing. Not everyone shares Sturgeon's views. All the Scottish guys I know who work in England say there's not much appetite for yet another poll back home. They're pretty sick of them now.

I totally agree that they should be given another referendum on the basis that it's done by the end of this summer. Should put paid to Sturgeon and Salmond, I reckon. I can't help thinking that they keep banging the same drum to deflect attention away from their performance in the day job.

The case for independence has to be even weaker now, given the price of oil and the fact that the EU are unlikely to accept a breakaway state. That'd also leave them with the task of minting their own, new currency! :o
 
Roar87 said:
Completely agree, we're not a nation of equals, Scotland has it much better than the rest of the country
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I know this is in retort to Eddie's normal lunacy about Scotland but do you have any science behind this? Like statistics, facts or evidence?

I know it's a pointless request given the nature of the topic but the least we can do given that the OP cannot last 3 sentences before car-crashing his own thread is try and keep it civil.
 
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