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Section 75 Claims - New Cars

Discussion in 'Motors' started by kaktus, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. ilc72

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2014

    Posts: 373

    To the original poster....

    Obviously you purchased the car using a credit card for the deposit, did you take out a finance agreement as well? The problem I can foresee with anything other than a Section 75 is that you have allowed Citroen far too many attempts to rectify the fault before rejecting the car. This will limit your options...

    The good thing with a valid Section 75 claim is that it is for the seller to prove the goods were fit for purpose. Since you have left it too long then now the burden of proof is on you for most other courses of action.

    If the car was purchased on finance then in some circumstances it can be returned when 50% of the total amount due has been paid, some will tell you it will affect your credit score of you do this but that is a fallacy propagated by dealers and finance companies to dissuade people going this route.

    Do you have Legal Expenses cover with your motor insurance or family legal protection with your home insurance? This could prove invaluable as a good solicitor isn’t going to be cheap!

    I have successfully returned two cars, one was replaced with a new model after six months, the second was finally returned to the finance company after 18 months but all I got was effectively a better than trade price for the vehicle.

    I suggest that you take the time to write a detailed chronology of events, since this will be needed anyway, but also take the time out to think what you want. It’s unrealistic to expect a full refund at this point, since you have had the benefit of the car for over a year when taking into account it being off the road for 4+ months.
     
  2. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 5,667

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Not really, if anything it will strengthen his claim because he has given them more than reasonable opportunity to fix the issue and the goods are still faulty.

    The rest of your post is waffle tbh.
     
  3. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    As I said early on.
     
  4. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,042

    Samsung wouldn't give you a refund though. Guess where they would tell you to go for that.

    For the OP, Citroen have been paying for warranty repairs. It's reached a stage where it can't be supposedly can't be repaired (at least by the N London dealer).
     
  5. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    On issues like this both dealer and manufacturers are involved.

    This is fact, we can move on now.
     
  6. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,042

    Well in the OP's case the original dealer hasn't even seen the car yet.

    The OP would like to avoid that somehow. I'd like to see how you'd resolve that.

    I never said the manufacturer can't get involved. But you ain't taking the car to the Citroen head office.

     
  7. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    I have already covered all this above and Audi UK CEO’s office were involved with my R8 so to my point it sits with both now. Been here, seen it, fixed it more than once.

    Too add on your Apple point. My wife’s phone was replaced by Apple Solihull for 25 quid just before Christmas after she broke it. She bought it from EE, apple could not fix it so provided a brand new like for like replacement. Not the first time they did the same with my iPhone 2 when it went swimming. That was from CPW
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  8. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,042

    Yes you have by saying take it to the dealer.

    But saying the manufacturer gets involved simply perpetuates the logic the OP seems to be under that Citroen the company is directly culpable. That is not true, the dealer is and your contract of sale is with them. If you want to reject the car based on the goods not satisfying that contract, then your problem is again with that dealer, not Citroen. Therefore, acting with disbelief when they want to see the car is absurd. Waiting 18 months before handing them the car is also absurd, although they should and are willing to deal with it.
     
  9. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    We are agreeing. I’ve said all this but to suggest that the manufacturer has no involvement in situations like this is wrong. Use dealer DP and manufacturer to get best result. I’ve done it. It’s not about process, that is the bloody problem. I get things sorted I’m trying to help others not win internets.
     
  10. ilc72

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2014

    Posts: 373

    @kindai

    As a ex Citizens Advice adviser and a someone who has a Masters degree in a Finance Law I think I may know more than you think. Each to their own but I stand by what I said, I was only trying to ask the OP information that may be helpful. With all due respect you need to know your stuff by commenting on issues like this, there are many ways to approach this to get a resolution but selecting the most appropriate route depends on what has happened!
     
  11. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 5,667

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Pretty much validated my point :D

    Honestly, every time ive had to deal with CAB on behalf of friends or family theyve been as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    He doesnt need to hire a solicitor, he just needs to apply pressure to the right people and take command of the situation. I myself filed a section 75 claim against a company just before Christmas, 3 years after the fact. As of last week they agreed to re-reimburse me in full (nearly 4k) minus 100 quid which I agreed to.

    I didnt actually have to pursue the S75 past the opening letter, but when a company has a credit provider breathing down their neck they often become a lot more co-operative.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  12. ilc72

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2014

    Posts: 373

    @kindai

    Citizens Advice provides a valuable service to many people in need, they can’t solve every problem but they are mainly volunteers helping vulnerable people and can be a god send when dealing with DWP and also those in financial distress. Not everyone is blessed with the knowledge of people like yourself! Some of the people that I assisted when I volunteered had stories that were quite literally heart breaking, imagine dealing with a young mum with a face battered and bruised by her husband.

    Before rubbishing those who give their time voluntarily to others, ask yourself what have you done to give back to society?

    For reference, I didn’t say he needed to hire a solicitor, he mentioned he’d already spoken to a solicitor. I just suggested ways that if he wanted to use a solicitor that he could get help with the costs.

    I would always go the S75 route myself in this situation.
     
  13. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 36,648

    So I guess we can all agree that 18 months is ridiculous and that a section 75 claim, which he has already been advised is the way to go by a solicitor is indeed the way to go here?
     
  14. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 5,667

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Personally:

    Drop the car off with the Bolton branch with a clear defined timeline of what the problem is and when you expect it to be resolved by, with the DP included.

    Outline acceptable resolutions to the problem. eg A replacement like for like vehicle without this fault, a full refund, the problem fixed permanently.

    Simultaneously file a section 75 claim.

    Inform them that likewise if an acceptable resolution is not delivered in a satisfactory time frame you will start court proceedings, for the full cost of the vehicle plus all your time and expenses in having to deal with it.

    They are obviously going to try and push back because of things such as the time the OP has used the car, but he needs to stand firm, at the end of the day cars are a necessity for many people, so yes he may have had to use it with this fault and rack up some miles, not his fault, they shouldn't of sold him a faulty car. The fact he has all the documentation going all the way back to the start assists him in this regard. The only reason it seems its gone this far it seems is he was led down the garden path by trying to resolve it on their terms, now its time for them to resolve it on his ones. People seem a bit too hung up on the time that has passed, its a minor point really, its not like hes driven it for 18 months and then decided he doesnt like the grinding noises, hes had an open issue with them FOR 18 months trying to resolve it.
     
  15. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 36,648

    Well yeah, the 18 months is ostensibly their fault not his... as he was following their instructions etc.. Yup there are of course the arguments that he should have taken a different approach much sooner (that certainly is a lot of patience to string this out for 18 months, I'd have lost my **** over something like this much sooner), but from the perspective of the dealership themselves, if they fobbed him off initially and were happy for him to keep pursuing things under warranty with a local dealership then they can't really complain too much.
     
  16. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    This is exactly why I have zero desire to let the Bolton dealer have a go now. They didn't want anything to do with this issue or all the other issues to begin with and now that it has dragged on this long and it has reached the point where the car is being rejected according to one poster here it is totally reasonable for them to do so. I think that is absurd.

    I have been dealing with the Dealer Principal in the N London branch who couldn't give a toss and his head of service department is the one that has stated in writing they are of the opinion it is a design characteristic and no more can be done. Wtf are the Bolton dealership going to find that the N London branch haven't done in 18 months when there is service records to prove they've swapped out the entire suspension system even

    I've written up the s75 letter over the weekend and compiled all the emails in chronoligical order and now just waiting for the service reports to send off the package.

    First and last citroen ever. Really total pos company
     
  17. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    No matter which way he goes he will struggle to get anything more than current market value, as I stated in my first post. due to how long it has taken and the fact we only have his side of things. He might actually be better served to put it into someone like WhatCar and see if they want to pick it up as they have a section each month that deals with cases like this. If it is the car crash it seems, they may want some of it and as soon as the media elevates it the problem becomes significant for all the brands involved.

    Good luck OP and please pick the phone up and talk to the right people. All this constant audit trailing (I know legals will need this) has been a waste so far and you could face a large legal bill if your not careful and still not get the result you want. If you want to discuss it (I have lots of personal experience in this area) then send me a message.
     
  18. jpaul

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 5,918

    To add weight, did you consider a engineer assessment (or declaring intention), plus ref's to TSB's or other owners simllar issues ?

    - a clear/realistic acceptable settlement , to discuss during a call with garage, could help expedite.
     
  19. Kaeo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 7, 2011

    Posts: 1,283

    Location: Edinburgh

    I'm sure if OcUK had a specialised clean room for repairing monitors and it was financially viable for them to do so they would honour warranty repairs and reclaim the costs from Samsung. OcUK don't specialise in selling and maintaining Samsung monitors. You're trying to make a point that you know isn't comparable.
     
  20. Dr House

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 12,926

    Location: London / Prague

    Rejected a Porsche a few years ago. Got back the new price less 2 or 3k but we only had it for 3 or 4 months