Shoppers 'to be charged 20p on plastic bottles & Metal Cans under return scheme

[Vulcan]

Regarding space; I can't see how a load of empty bottles & cans takes up more space than the entire food delivery you're getting at the same time? (Unless you order 10 crates of beer one week and a sandwich the next ). Our deliveries always come in bags inside plastic boxes, which would contain any leakage, and it would be easy enough to enforce a condition that they must be clean and any dirty ones won't be credited.

You expect the drive to forensically inspect each can? Your lips have been around the top of it, it's a waste product that's potentially contaminated and can't go back in where other peoples shopping is. So where does it go? I can't ever see supermarket delivery drivers taking peoples recyclables back, just too many problems.

People already either make that journey to the supermarket to shop, or have their shopping delivered at home. Done properly*, no extra journeys are required. Easily solvable problem.

Yes some people might be going there anyway, but it's still a tedious task of bagging all the cans, keeping them by the door, then when you go shopping, put them in the vending machine one by one. All this for the exact same result as what we currently do.

 

[Haggisman]

You expect the drive to forensically inspect each can? Your lips have been around the top of it, it's a waste product that's potentially contaminated and can't go back in where other peoples shopping is. So where does it go? I can't ever see supermarket delivery drivers taking peoples recyclables back, just too many problems.

Of course not - they go in the box your shopping came out of and get sorted back at the hub

Yes some people might be going there anyway, but it's still a tedious task of bagging all the cans, keeping them by the door, then when you go shopping, put them in the vending machine one by one. All this for the exact same result as what we currently do.

The same result as we currently get for the people who do recycle. I don't think that's who this is targeted at?

 

[Vulcan]

Of course not - they go in the box your shopping came out of and get sorted back at the hub

But you have to drive to the supermarket to do this. Unless you're still saying the supermarket drivers are going to take the cans away, which is highly unlikely. They aren't going to go and count your corona virus riddled cans on the roadside, and then put them in the back of the van with other peoples shopping. Too many H&S issues, too much of a hassle.

 

[Kenai]

People already either make that journey to the supermarket to shop, or have their shopping delivered at home. Done properly*, no extra journeys are required. Easily solvable problem.

Great until you get to the sort of person who does their shopping on their way back home from work, as they drive past the supermarket, who now get the pleasure of carting a box/bag of cans, plastic and glass bottles to and from work as well.

I'm sure this will also somehow be explained away as an improvement from the current scenario where you can already recycle it far more easily by putting it in a recycling bin and having someone take it away.

Or they have the 'free choice' to carry on as they are but get financially penalised for doing so. Progress.

The same result as we currently get for the people who do recycle. I don't think that's who this is targeted at?

Whether it's targeted or not, it either makes recycling more difficult or more expensive for the people who already do it. It will penalise those already making the effort, It's backwards and ill thought out.

 

[Haggisman]

Great until you get to the sort of person who does their shopping on their way back home from work, as they drive past the supermarket, who now get the pleasure of carting a box/bag of cans, plastic and glass bottles to and from work as well.

Finally an actual problem that requires some thought Yes this would pose a bit of an issue for that scenario. Would require some community recycling stations as well, maybe at public transport hubs?

Whether it's targeted or not, it either makes recycling more difficult or more expensive for the people who already do it. It will penalise those already making the effort, It's backwards and ill thought out.

So what's your suggestion to encourage recycling from those who currently don't? Maybe my suggestion of adding it to council tax would work

 

[Kenai]

Finally an actual problem that requires some thought Yes this would pose a bit of an issue for that scenario. Would require some community recycling stations as well, maybe at public transport hubs?

Maybe even a system where I have a personal bin at home which I put my recycling in and then it gets collected en masse and taken to a recycling centre?

So what's your suggestion to encourage recycling from those who currently don't? Maybe my suggestion of adding it to council tax would work

Certainly not to start penalising the people who do already recycle, where's the sense in that?

"Hey these guys over here don't make the effort so i'm going to make you guys already doing it put in even more effort or pay extra money! Hooray for progress!"

It's not an easy problem to solve, if people are so lazy they can't even be bothered to use a pair of provided bins but this doesn't seem the right way to go about it and nor am I convinced that the terminally lazy will suddenly jump up and down to go and reclaim a fiver a week anyway, which brings me back to the point about it really being more a revenue generation scheme rather than a genuine recycling incentive.

 

[Puzzled]

So what's your suggestion to encourage recycling from those who currently don't? Maybe my suggestion of adding it to council tax would work

Do an actual incentive paid by the companies that are producing all these plastic bottles. Bring it back and you get 20p knocked off your next bottle of coke or whatever. I doubt that would do much either tbh but more than just getting your money back and doesn't punish the rest of us. Yes prices will likely go up but not by much.

We have very little control over what the products we buy come in. If you want actual change then you need to make a difference at the source. If single use plastics became prohibitively expensive to use you can be pretty damn sure they would be pumping serious money into researching alternatives.

 

[Vulcan]

So what's your suggestion to encourage recycling from those who currently don't?

You have to realise that some people will never follow the rules, someone will always litter, someone will always put a recyclable item in the general waste bin. Changing the rules even further, annoying those that already follow the rules won't help.

 

[Haggisman]

Maybe even a system where I have a personal bin at home which I put my recycling in and then it gets collected en masse and taken to a recycling centre?

Which works great when people are community spirited and actually care about the world and environment (very much not the British way ).

Certainly not to start penalising the people who do already recycle, where's the sense in that?

Fair enough - I guess from my point of view I can see how it wouldn't be any less convenient than what I already do - but that would obviously depend on how it was implemented.

Do an actual incentive paid by the companies that are producing all these plastic bottles. Bring it back and you get 20p knocked off your next bottle of coke or whatever. I doubt that would do much either tbh but more than just getting your money back and doesn't punish the rest of us. Yes prices will likely go up but not by much.

Is that really any different? Other than instead of getting money back, you're tied in to buying that same product again.

You have to realise that some people will never follow the rules, someone will always litter, someone will always put a recyclable item in the general waste bin. Changing the rules even further, annoying those that already follow the rules won't help.

Of course not, but penalties/incentives to encourage it aren't necessarily a bad thing as long as it doesn't impact those who do too much.

 

[Nasher]

You have to realise that some people will never follow the rules, someone will always litter, someone will always put a recyclable item in the general waste bin. Changing the rules even further, annoying those that already follow the rules won't help.

Or when councils decide they are going to charge extra for certain rubbish (like garden waste in some areas). People just dump it in general waste instead, I would too.

 

[Kenai]

Which works great when people are community spirited and actually care about the world and environment (very much not the British way ).

Fair enough - I guess from my point of view I can see how it wouldn't be any less convenient than what I already do - but that would obviously depend on how it was implemented.

As said, I can't see those people suddenly finding such spirit for the sake of a few quid a week.

As for convenience, currently it all gets collected from my doorstep - paper, plastic, cans and glass. By definition, having to separate some of it out and take it elsewhere is less convenient than that. Or I get financially penalised.

The only thing that really limits my recycling effort is the fact my local council don't recycle certain types of plastic tubs/packaging. Legislation to force local authority recycling to take all recyclable materials consistently across the country (even if they have to move things between different centres) would be a better start than adding a burden to individuals.

 

[Reality|Bites]

Not all plastic bottles are made the same though, how do we know which ones can be recycled?
Are they going to force the drinks industry to only use the one single type of plastic that is able to be recycled?

Would Americans say BIG Drink?

 

[builder22]

Do the automated machines accept crushed cans, like squashed to a pancake crushed?

 

[mccarf]

We already have this system in Finland and it works well. You just save your bottles up in a bag. When the bag gets full, you take it on a shopping trip with you and get a coupon which you use at the checkout to reduce your bill. The new generation of machines which are coming are just a giant hole where you can tip cans/plastic bottles + glass bottles and the machine quickly sorts through them. I'm not particularly motivated to save the environment myself, but it's a rather easy system to use. I also fail to see how it penalises people who already recycle. I already recylce plastics/glass/metal/paper/food etc and it's really no effort.

Do the automated machines accept crushed cans, like squashed to a pancake crushed?

To my knowledge, the ones here need the cans and bottles to be in full size.

 

[krooton]

To my knowledge, the ones here need the cans and bottles to be in full size.

Which is part of the problem, I squash all bottles where possible to save the volume they take up in the bin, but having to keep them 'inflated' in order to use in these machines means so much extra room taken up by rubbish.

 

[Vulcan]

I also fail to see how it penalises people who already recycle. I already recylce plastics/glass/metal/paper/food etc and it's really no effort.

We do as well, we put it blue bins or plastic totes and the local council collect it from the roadside.

Does Finland offer recycling collection from your house?

 

[alec]

Do the automated machines accept crushed cans, like squashed to a pancake crushed?

somewhat damaged yes, pancake no.
the barcode must remain readable and the machine rolls can/bottle around to get to it.

 

[adolf hamster]

Do the automated machines accept crushed cans, like squashed to a pancake crushed?

the ones i've used didn't, they could be dinged up a bit but the machine has to spin it around to find the barcode to scan it in.

 

[Vulcan]

but the machine has to spin it around to find the barcode to scan it in.

Well multi pack cans don't have barcodes so presumably any we get will identify the object without barcodes. If not, that's another problem.

 

[pepp77]

So cans and plastics bottles, two of the most easily recycled products to be affected, yet supermarkets can still sell bread in packets that says do not recycle take to supermarket and recycle with plastic bags there.