Shoppers 'to be charged 20p on plastic bottles & Metal Cans under return scheme

[adolf hamster]

Well multi pack cans don't have barcodes so presumably any we get will identify the object without barcodes. If not, that's another problem.

the german stuff does have a seperate marker logo, although i'm not sure if it scans that or if it had a seperate barcode.

i mean it's not like i paid that much attention to it, you put the cans in the machine, it gives you a reciept, hand it over at the till and they take it off your shopping bill.

adding a barcode to multipack cans isn't exactly a deal breaker here.....

 

[Semple]

I'm sure this "concept" comes up every few years and it never comes into effect.

With roadside recycling, it has never been easier to recycle your cans/bottles. If i'm honest, the rubbish i see when i'm out and about is normally general waste rather than recyclable waste.

I can think of a dozen better ideas to increase recycling / reduce waste.

 

[Semple]

Any reason you can't get the recycling collected with your shopping? They already do it for plastic bags.



You can if you order online - I get back 5p/bag I return to our Morrison's driver.

Does your morrisons driver honestly count through every bag you return to calculate your refund?

I just can't see that working effectively/efficiently, you'll have every driver who's delivering food then having to count the number of plastic bags being returned, the number of plastic bottles being returned, the number of metal cans being returned. In effect they're almost splitting their job between food delivery and waste collection.

 

[Haggisman]

Does your morrisons driver honestly count through every bag you return to calculate your refund?

No, I give him a bundle of bags, tell him how many there are, and I get an email 10 minutes later saying I've had a credit of (no. of bags x 5p). Yeah I could scam them by saying there are 12 bags when there are only 10, but as long as it's not blatantly over then is it really an issue?

 

[Angilion]

because it provides motivation for people who are too lazy to even bother doing curbside collection?

I think it would be counter-productive for two reasons:

i) It does the opposite for people who already do curbside collection.
ii) A person who doesn't bother to do curbside collection is highly unlikely to go to the far greater trouble of bagging it all up, taking it to wherever a working machine will be and feeding it one at a time to the machine.

So the main effect is to implement an extra tax that primarily disadvantages people who recycle and people who are poor.

 

[Angilion]

Lobbing a bottle into your recycling bin where it will end up being melted down (or chucked into landfill depending who you believe) is not the same way of doing it as the bottles going back, being washed and reused. It's something that is tried and tested and much better for the environment.

Lobbing a bottle into your recycling bin where it will end up being recycled or landfilled is the same as lobbing a bottle into a recycling bin in a supermarket where it will end up being recycled or landfilled. The only difference is that the former is more convenient to users (and thus more likely to be used) and more efficient (and thus uses less resources itself).

In short, we already have a better system than the one being proposed.

If you were proposing a return to wash and reuse bottles, that would be a different thing. And it would still be more convenient and more efficient to do it through curbside collection.

 

[Em3bbs]

In short, we already have a better system than the one being proposed.

If you were proposing a return to wash and reuse bottles, that would be a different thing. And it would still be more convenient and more efficient to do it through curbside collection.

To your first point, we don't have a better system than the one being proposed. In Germany 99% of cans are now recycled, and around 97% of plastic bottles, all since introducing these similar measures. I lived in Germany around the time of the changeover from 'normal' recycle bins and there was just as much moaning there as there is here now, but 20 years later they've proved it works.

And to your second point, that's exactly what they do with glass bottles, which things like Coke, Apple juice, beer all come in. You also get crates that you can reuse as many times as you want to help to take the bottles back.

 

[Malevolence]

We don't even have recycling bins here, everything just goes into the one wheelie bin which is then put out on a Tuesday night.

 

[Bear]

We have curb side recycling and we don’t even have to sort it, we can just bag glass, plastic and cans together which is nice and simple. Only paper / cardboard needs to be separate for us. Having to sort it out and take it to a shop is just adding more hassle.

 

[mccarf]

Which is part of the problem, I squash all bottles where possible to save the volume they take up in the bin, but having to keep them 'inflated' in order to use in these machines means so much extra room taken up by rubbish.

To be honest, I live in a 1 bedroom flat and it doesn't feel like it's taking much space to me.

We do as well, we put it blue bins or plastic totes and the local council collect it from the roadside.

Does Finland offer recycling collection from your house?

Kind of. We have these "bin sheds" in our local housing block (say about 40-50 metres max from the flats) which we use our house key to access. Inside it has a bunch of different dumpsters for whichever sort of rubbish you're throwing out (general/glass/paper/plastic etc..). It works the same for every other block of flats pretty much. Houses have a mix of kerbside collections or bin sheds.

The main positive I've noticed is that bottles/cans etc are barely ever littered or binned here since it's like throwing money away. In the UK if I'm out and about and I have an empty bottle I'll throw it in the first general bin I see usually, and I would guess many others do the same. Here I'll actually bother to take it home if I have a bag, or leave it on top of a bin in highly populated city areas, so somebody else can recycle it and get some money off their food.

 

[Angilion]

To your first point, we don't have a better system than the one being proposed. In Germany 99% of cans are now recycled, and around 97% of plastic bottles, all since introducing these similar measures. I lived in Germany around the time of the changeover from 'normal' recycle bins and there was just as much moaning there as there is here now, but 20 years later they've proved it works.

Does Germany have curbside recycling collection that's integrated with domestic waste collection? It doesn't, does it? Because if it did people would be using that instead. Because it's a better system.

And to your second point, that's exactly what they do with glass bottles, which things like Coke, Apple juice, beer all come in. You also get crates that you can reuse as many times as you want to help to take the bottles back.

Which is irrelevant to plastic bottles, which are the bottles that this proposal is all about. Also, glass bottles are collected in UK curbside recycling collection as well.

 

[Reality|Bites]

 

[adolf hamster]

I think it would be counter-productive for two reasons:

i) It does the opposite for people who already do curbside collection.
ii) A person who doesn't bother to do curbside collection is highly unlikely to go to the far greater trouble of bagging it all up, taking it to wherever a working machine will be and feeding it one at a time to the machine.

So the main effect is to implement an extra tax that primarily disadvantages people who recycle and people who are poor.

People keep saying it doesnt provide motivation, but given how resistant people seem to be about the idea seems to suggest the very opposite.

As for arguments about the hassle of taking it to the shop, i'm impressed how its apparently impossible to take a light bag of empty bottles to a shop via the same methods you intend to use to get heavy bags of full bottles plus the rest of your shopping home.

 

[Angilion]

People keep saying it doesnt provide motivation, but given how resistant people seem to be about the idea seems to suggest the very opposite.

As for arguments about the hassle of taking it to the shop, i'm impressed how its apparently impossible to take a light bag of empty bottles to a shop via the same methods you intend to use to get heavy bags of full bottles plus the rest of your shopping home.

So you haven't read the arguments then.

The people arguing against it are not comparing it to doing nothing. They're comparing it with curbside recycling. You're not addressing the arguments. You're beating a strawman.

 

[413x]

It'll be same as bags.

People will moan
It will come in
People will moan
People will moan less over time

It will make a difference

 

[adolf hamster]

So you haven't read the arguments then.

The people arguing against it are not comparing it to doing nothing. They're comparing it with curbside recycling. You're not addressing the arguments. You're beating a strawman.

yeah you're not really getting the point here.

kerbside is convenient for those environmentally concious enough to use it, but plenty still require motivation- that's who this law is aimed at.

It'll be same as bags.

People will moan
It will come in
People will moan
People will moan less over time

It will make a difference

sounds about right.

 

[krooton]

yeah you're not really getting the point here.

kerbside is convenient for those environmentally concious enough to use it, but plenty still require motivation- that's who this law is aimed at.

Whilst at the same time penalizing those who do it kerbside... so regardless of who the law is aimed at, there is a bunch of friendly-fire.

Also, what happens if the label of the can/bottle becomes damaged or lost, if there is no barcode, how does it all work?

 

[413x]

It's not really that much. If you don't want the to claim the 20p you don't have to. We need more revenue especially if it goes to green initiatives.

Hope it gets pushed through

These are the sort of policies I want to have to be able to vote for

 

[fez]

Good idea in theory but chavs are going to chav and not bother and everyone else recycles their cans and bottles already.

If they want to do something, penalise companies that don't use recyclable plastics. Also, stop them from saying "not currently recyclable". Does my ******* head in for some reason. So are we going to be able to recycle all this plastic after its been dumped into landfill then? Its either recyclable or it isn't. If it isn't, it goes in the waste bin and get burned or buried.

Another favourite of mine is "container recycleable but film not". At least 90% of those containers have the film glued so firmly to the container that there isn't a hope in hell you don't tear the film removing it and you can't get it off the edges of the container.

 

[413x]

Good idea in theory but chavs are going to chav and not bother and everyone else recycles their cans and bottles already.

If they want to do something, penalise companies that don't use recyclable plastics. Also, stop them from saying "not currently recyclable". Does my ******* head in for some reason. So are we going to be able to recycle all this plastic after its been dumped into landfill then? Its either recyclable or it isn't. If it isn't, it goes in the waste bin and get burned or buried.

Another favourite of mine is "container recycleable but film not". At least 90% of those containers have the film glued so firmly to the container that there isn't a hope in hell you don't tear the film removing it and you can't get it off the edges of the container.

But poor people can go round and litter pick and get some money.

But yeah. We need to make progress on ending single use plastic

It's probably too late And the oceana are doomed. But still should try