Caporegime
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Should Wenger go? (Spoilers!)
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
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Come on it didn't start with either of those two. They just moved the goalposts larger than anyone else. For someone of my age you could say liverpool started it.
I remember full well the outrage in my local newsagents when Liverpool decided to pay John Barnes about 12k per week and how the game was going to ruin.
I remember Collymore going for 8 million and the liverpool board saying that was the revenue for all the home games that season spent on one transfer.
When it's your team few people care. I don't remember hearing too many complaints when Arsenal paid Henry 100k or Manu fans when they paid keane 90k. They only complain now two more teams have moved above them in spending power. Manu and Arsenal used their spending power for years to pillage other clubs. It's unfair to blame Chelsea and City for ruining the game.
Your other points I pretty much agree with, things need to change but this is all money for the FA and Uefa, they don't really care.
I am an Arsenal fan and I think his eyes are a lot better than yours
Whoever comes in, if the board do not allow higher wages, you cannot get top talent and keep them, not now anyway. Too much rebuilding needs to be done, our rep is down and unless we pay like city (we cannot) new manager or not, won't make much difference.
People say Wenger has gone crazy. I think the board are in more control then we like to think. Wenger is not in my opinion being given the resources needed to compete. He and the board had a plan all those years ago, but that did not take into account Chelsea/City spending.
Anyway, not saying Wenger does not make mistakes or he is the best manager ever, but he in my opinion has done a great deal for us at Arsenal and continues to do so under the circumstances. If he leaves, I fear we will nor be a top 4 club for a long time.
Season is new yet. Today IMO is a one off. Shame it had to happen, as it will mess our confidence, but once we get a few wins (and we will) together, we will start climbing the table. Even if we do not finish in top 4, i still say Wenger should stay a few more years.
I think it's become all too common place these days to just sack the manager when a team starts doing badly. Wenger has done great things with Arsenal. To suddenly start throwing toys out of the pram saying he's rubbish etc, is disrespectful and anyone who does so is not a real Arsenal supporter. I think he should stay. One bad patch and people start crying. Get a grip. Stick up for a fantastic manager who has stuck with Arsenal through everything.
Don't you think the performance bothers him more than anyone? He will be doing the best he possibly can to sort this out. Who else could do a better job? Some randomer that will just spend on big names. Anyone can do that. Let Wenger spend and strengthen and don't expect miracles this season. Even the best teams faulter and have bad years. This is definitely the end of an era...the end of Arsenal as we knew it with the tippy tappy I think. But I just don't think it means Wenger should go. I think he should be given a chance to change things.
I know other people see that the last 6 years have been a chance to "change" things. Well....yes and no. I just think it would be so harsh to just sack him. We've been unlucky in BOTH premiership games. The Man U game....well....yeah we lost and fell apart but it is the best team in the premiership and they are world class. It's only one loss against the best club. 1-0 or 8-2 it still will count as simpyl losing to Man U away. It happens most seasons. It's not like we are going to get relegated.
Don't you think the performance bothers him more than anyone? He will be doing the best he possibly can to sort this out. Who else could do a better job? Some randomer that will just spend on big names. Anyone can do that. Let Wenger spend and strengthen and don't expect miracles this season. Even the best teams faulter and have bad years. This is definitely the end of an era...the end of Arsenal as we knew it with the tippy tappy I think. But I just don't think it means Wenger should go. I think he should be given a chance to change things.
I know other people see that the last 6 years have been a chance to "change" things. Well....yes and no. I just think it would be so harsh to just sack him. We've been unlucky in BOTH premiership games. The Man U game....well....yeah we lost and fell apart but it is the best team in the premiership and they are world class. It's only one loss against the best club. 1-0 or 8-2 it still will count as simpyl losing to Man U away. It happens most seasons. It's not like we are going to get relegated.
This isn't a recent thing that's just happened in the past 2 games, the rot set in a good couple of seasons ago, if not earlier, when there was glaring short comings with the team, especially defensively that he just never dealt with in any shape or form.
Soldato
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Wenger is a very frustrating manager.
Whats obvious to every one, is not to Wenger.
When every one says we need to sign a center back, wenger says, we have 5 players already in that position, and buying someone wil ony get in the way of the youngsters.
Lots of things are wrong at Arsenal.
1. Wrong formation and players being played out of position.
2. No no9 type player, and playing vanpersie on his own upfront.
3. Squad is too young and frail. (Look what Birmingham did to us in the Carling Cup final)
4. Captaincy. Should not have been Cesc and should not be Van Persie.
5. We have no defence. Jenkinson, is not ready, traore...... we need at least 1 centerback to pair with Vermalan. Koscelny is good but as back up.
6. Arshavin in out of position, which is why he is crap.
7. Same excuses from Wenger year after year, with regards to squad. We have loads of players, they are a year older now and will have learnt from last year....... but so do all the other teams in the world.
8. Id also argue our Central Midfield is to short and not bullish enough. (skilled yes, but no ball winners) (I rate frimpong, but again, realying on unproven youth)
Whats obvious to every one, is not to Wenger.
When every one says we need to sign a center back, wenger says, we have 5 players already in that position, and buying someone wil ony get in the way of the youngsters.
Lots of things are wrong at Arsenal.
1. Wrong formation and players being played out of position.
2. No no9 type player, and playing vanpersie on his own upfront.
3. Squad is too young and frail. (Look what Birmingham did to us in the Carling Cup final)
4. Captaincy. Should not have been Cesc and should not be Van Persie.
5. We have no defence. Jenkinson, is not ready, traore...... we need at least 1 centerback to pair with Vermalan. Koscelny is good but as back up.
6. Arshavin in out of position, which is why he is crap.
7. Same excuses from Wenger year after year, with regards to squad. We have loads of players, they are a year older now and will have learnt from last year....... but so do all the other teams in the world.
8. Id also argue our Central Midfield is to short and not bullish enough. (skilled yes, but no ball winners) (I rate frimpong, but again, realying on unproven youth)
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Wow. That's some impressively ill informed bitterness right there
I don't think it is particularly bitter. Quite truthful. Football was going the way it is today but at a much slower rate. Oh and for the record the combined wealth of Arsenals owners could easily give City a run for their money, we have just chosen not to spend it. Little bit of a mistake to be honest as we could have kept a couple of players brought in a few others, but not for stupid money.
Soldato
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The club dont want to rely on out side money, they want to be self sustainable, which makes us one of the most well run clubs (financially) in the world.
But on the pitch policies are evidently going wrong.
But on the pitch policies are evidently going wrong.
But to me, I think it seems like it not that Wenger has lost it. For example, he said things like if we lost both cesc and nasri we can no longer be considered a big club. I think he said that with secret message behind it. In my opinion it was to the board in hopes they would increase wages, or that he knew they were both going and he was just letting the fans and even the board know of what was to come (of which we already seeing the effects of).
I am sure though some of his principles and goals have gotten in the way us wining titles in the past 6 years. But sooner or later he will have to change. I think it will be sooner, well I hope so
Go buy Hazard and Cahill at the minimum I say, even if we need to pay more than we should be. Otherwise they will be going elsewhere in next transfer window I fear
I am sure though some of his principles and goals have gotten in the way us wining titles in the past 6 years. But sooner or later he will have to change. I think it will be sooner, well I hope so
Go buy Hazard and Cahill at the minimum I say, even if we need to pay more than we should be. Otherwise they will be going elsewhere in next transfer window I fear
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I am an Arsenal fan and I think his eyes are a lot better than yours
Whoever comes in, if the board do not allow higher wages, you cannot get top talent and keep them, not now anyway. Too much rebuilding needs to be done, our rep is down and unless we pay like city (we cannot) new manager or not, won't make much difference.
People say Wenger has gone crazy. I think the board are in more control then we like to think. Wenger is not in my opinion being given the resources needed to compete. He and the board had a plan all those years ago, but that did not take into account Chelsea/City spending.
Anyway, not saying Wenger does not make mistakes or he is the best manager ever, but he in my opinion has done a great deal for us at Arsenal and continues to do so under the circumstances. If he leaves, I fear we will nor be a top 4 club for a long time.
Season is new yet. Today IMO is a one off. Shame it had to happen, as it will mess our confidence, but once we get a few wins (and we will) together, we will start climbing the table. Even if we do not finish in top 4, i still say Wenger should stay a few more years.
Sorry but like its been said before. please tell me how much it costs to have a plan B? to change tactics? to play players in their most useful role and to teach your defenders how to defend?
Nout. nothing. zero. Now please tell me this. Who's fault is it that we dont have a plan B, cant defend? cant change tactics? The boards fault? No sorry thats Wenger and al the coaches fault. Nothing to do with the board.
My point is that you need £££ to compete. Just about every team including swansa in the PL would NOT be smashed 8:2 at old trafford. exact words from Paul Merson.
You do realise a few years ago we HAD a great team with cesc, nasri, gallas, Adebayor, clichy,Toure. Those players played with eachother not long ago yet we still diddnt win nothing.
why? BECAUSE ITS NOT JUST ABOUT MONEY. why cant you and other blind wenger fanboys realize this! why do people constantly think its 100% down to £££ that where in this position! We had a great team 2/3 seasons ago and what did we win? why did we fail?
You blooming know why. No plan B, cant defend, cant change tactics. That is all because of Wenger!
Dont tell me Nasri and fab are useless playing this open style football and dont tell me gallas and toure are worse then kolselney and the other useless idiots in our backline because they simply are not.
At the end of the day teh reason why where in this mess is around 60/70% on wenger and teh restd own to ££. And this is ONLY in the assumption that the board doesnt want to spend. HOWEVER, if there is money available then its 100% wengers fault and i cant for the life of me understand why ANYONE would defend him.
Soldato
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Thing do we need hazard?
Sell Arshaving and then play him in his position.
We need cahill and a commanding DM. A growling snarling beast of man, with the discipline of a ballerina.
(And a striker, but he is bring in a korean, who before you say it, does look good. Think park Je Sung, but a striker... exaclty a good player)
Sell Arshaving and then play him in his position.
We need cahill and a commanding DM. A growling snarling beast of man, with the discipline of a ballerina.
(And a striker, but he is bring in a korean, who before you say it, does look good. Think park Je Sung, but a striker... exaclty a good player)
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Soldato
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Also watching Wenger on the bench in todays game, he hardly spoke to any one, nor was he too bothered.
It was like he didnt want to play the game as he was playing it with players he didnt want to play....
Which is why he wsnt bothered by the result.
Im glad we got hammered. I want it to be crystal clear to wenger we need players.
It was like he didnt want to play the game as he was playing it with players he didnt want to play....
Which is why he wsnt bothered by the result.
Im glad we got hammered. I want it to be crystal clear to wenger we need players.
Caporegime
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People are talking out of their arse in here, we need higher wages, we can't compete.
Again EVERYTHING says you are wrong, everything. Utd are spending I think probably closing in on 50mil less than City this season, and 30-40mil less last season, and who won the title, Chelsea spent 30-40mil more than Utd almost every season in the last what, 5 seasons, and who has won 4 of the titles?
Then look at Arsenal........ did Arsenal win titles by overpaying to keep expensive players? No, never, we sold high and bought low, and still won things, you don't HAVE to have an old established long list of players to win things.
The difference in quality between a player who DESERVES 80k a week and a player who gets 150k a week at City, is almost nothing. There are only so many spots at City, Chelsea, Real and Barca, other players get paid what clubs can afford, there are MANY more great players than can fit into just those 4 insane wage paying teams, anyone saying otherwise, is beyond stupid because Barca bring in new people and sell other players, WHO HAVE WON TITLES, frequently, as do Utd, and Chelsea, and Real.
Is VDV on huge wages, big but not insane, was Young on huge wages at Villa, no, is he on over 100k a week now, very unlikely, is he the best winger in the league, yes.
Sorry but the problem lies with Wenger, he decided to pay Denilson 40k a week, he is so low in quality he SHOULD struggle to get 5k a week in league one. Its Wenger who paid him, stuck with him, and started him.
The WASTE that we ALREADY PAY is where the problem is.
Cesc didn't leave for money, Gallas left for LESS MONEY, and he left because of Wenger, Pires and Reyes left, for less money, because of Wenger, Gilberto left because of Wenger, but got paid through the teeth, its NOT why he left. Flamini left for not huge money, but because Wenger simply wouldn't gaurentee him a position or a starting spot and pee'd around with his career for years, Toure was forced out by Wenger after being frozen out, Clichy left due to Wenger/Arsenal's lack of moving forwards, Eboue and Bendtner left/are leaving because they couldn't get a game, etc, etc.
Nasri left for ambition and money, Ade left for money, I can't name many others that have left for a huge pay day. Most of these guys simply wanted to leave, any extra money they get was simply a bonus.
We can get FAR better players for the money we are paying, that is simply fact. We could be saving 20-30mil a year MINIMUM if we ditched guys who aren't good enough and saved on their wages, this is all 100% down to Wenger.
We bought Squillaci, after we lost Gallas because Wenger treated him like turd. He played more than anyone else, played through injuries, spoke out when needed which helped the team, got dropped then promptly shoved back in when Wenger realised how wrong he was and Gallas played EVEN BETTER. Our reward, you're over 30 so we want to cut your wage by 25% and won't offer you a longer deal.......
This would make SOME sense if we didn't through new higher wage deals at Rosicky, Diaby, Gibbs, Djourou, Theo and all our other sicknotes, but the one guy who plays through the pain barrier and is a rock, we take the **** out of by offering him one year at a vastly reduced wage, this is a Wenger choice, a Wenger policy and it makes no sense at all.
Again EVERYTHING says you are wrong, everything. Utd are spending I think probably closing in on 50mil less than City this season, and 30-40mil less last season, and who won the title, Chelsea spent 30-40mil more than Utd almost every season in the last what, 5 seasons, and who has won 4 of the titles?
Then look at Arsenal........ did Arsenal win titles by overpaying to keep expensive players? No, never, we sold high and bought low, and still won things, you don't HAVE to have an old established long list of players to win things.
The difference in quality between a player who DESERVES 80k a week and a player who gets 150k a week at City, is almost nothing. There are only so many spots at City, Chelsea, Real and Barca, other players get paid what clubs can afford, there are MANY more great players than can fit into just those 4 insane wage paying teams, anyone saying otherwise, is beyond stupid because Barca bring in new people and sell other players, WHO HAVE WON TITLES, frequently, as do Utd, and Chelsea, and Real.
Is VDV on huge wages, big but not insane, was Young on huge wages at Villa, no, is he on over 100k a week now, very unlikely, is he the best winger in the league, yes.
Sorry but the problem lies with Wenger, he decided to pay Denilson 40k a week, he is so low in quality he SHOULD struggle to get 5k a week in league one. Its Wenger who paid him, stuck with him, and started him.
The WASTE that we ALREADY PAY is where the problem is.
Cesc didn't leave for money, Gallas left for LESS MONEY, and he left because of Wenger, Pires and Reyes left, for less money, because of Wenger, Gilberto left because of Wenger, but got paid through the teeth, its NOT why he left. Flamini left for not huge money, but because Wenger simply wouldn't gaurentee him a position or a starting spot and pee'd around with his career for years, Toure was forced out by Wenger after being frozen out, Clichy left due to Wenger/Arsenal's lack of moving forwards, Eboue and Bendtner left/are leaving because they couldn't get a game, etc, etc.
Nasri left for ambition and money, Ade left for money, I can't name many others that have left for a huge pay day. Most of these guys simply wanted to leave, any extra money they get was simply a bonus.
We can get FAR better players for the money we are paying, that is simply fact. We could be saving 20-30mil a year MINIMUM if we ditched guys who aren't good enough and saved on their wages, this is all 100% down to Wenger.
We bought Squillaci, after we lost Gallas because Wenger treated him like turd. He played more than anyone else, played through injuries, spoke out when needed which helped the team, got dropped then promptly shoved back in when Wenger realised how wrong he was and Gallas played EVEN BETTER. Our reward, you're over 30 so we want to cut your wage by 25% and won't offer you a longer deal.......
This would make SOME sense if we didn't through new higher wage deals at Rosicky, Diaby, Gibbs, Djourou, Theo and all our other sicknotes, but the one guy who plays through the pain barrier and is a rock, we take the **** out of by offering him one year at a vastly reduced wage, this is a Wenger choice, a Wenger policy and it makes no sense at all.
Caporegime
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Did Pat Rice spend any time sitting next to Wenger at all? It seemed to me he was almost staying clear of Wenger on purpose and not talking at all, or is it just because of Utd's dugout's being weird, I can't remember back to old games but it did seem like they were basically avoiding each other.
Caporegime
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Let's just watch Spurs get hammered on MotD, that will cheer everyone up a bit. 
Soldato
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There are rumours that Arsenal are discussing upping the wage ceiling.
A nice article I'v just found.
Not a good read, from an Arsenal perspective....
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