Should Wenger go? (Spoilers!)

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A lot of neutrals/supporters of other teams seem to think this is a knee jerk reaction and "throwing toys out of the pram" but it's nothing of the sort. Wenger has been under-performing for FIVE YEARS.
 
A lot of neutrals/supporters of other teams seem to think this is a knee jerk reaction and "throwing toys out of the pram" but it's nothing of the sort. Wenger has been under-performing for FIVE YEARS.

No he's been over performing with the materials at his disposal. On one hand you praise Dein for his transfer dealings then on the other you now blame Wenger for not giving new signings/targets enough to get them there.

He just gives the the money men his targets and it's not his fault they offer what some regard derisory offers and not enough wages to stop them going to city.

It is a knee jerk reaction, some of you have changed your tune on this because of the drubbing you got at the hands of Manu. I remember when Manu fans wanted Fergie out because he had no plan B (you are all fond of saying) when they repeatedly played conservatively away from home in europe. He was apparently past it as well when Chelsea won the title 2 years running.

A manager with no plan B doesn't get as far as he has with the players he's had for the last 6 years.
 
I haven't changed my mind on him, in fact in my post on page one I said that he needs to change tactics, I'm not calling for his head by any means but to sit and watch him force the team to play the way that he wants them to play is like banging your head against a brick wall. We don't have the right players for our current formation, we don't have any defensive discipline and we don't have enough bite going forward either.

I'd much rather new defensive coaches, a new manager's assistant and a new formation than getting rid of Wenger. Yes he has been great with finances and we owe him a huge amount, of course I'm glad of that but when your club is used to winning trophies (or at least competing for them) so often and then it becomes 'next year will be our year' for 5 or 6 seasons on the trot it gets a little frustrating. Personally I've given Wenger all the backing that a real fan should, and I've stuck by him for years, I still think he has a lot to offer us, but he needs somebody alongside him to give him a hand because clearly Pat Rice and a few of the other staff are nothing but yes men.

You're right though dannyjo, we desperately need a plan B, at the moment we have money and we can only hope in the next few days that Wenger gets the people we need in, I'm not asking him to spend huge amounts of money, I don't care how much we spend, I just ask that he brings appropriate players in and makes a real go of it, because leaving us short in virtually every position when we've had the entire summer to sort it out is just not acceptable for a manager at a top club.
 
At least you have long term stability, going forward. If Abramovich walks away, Chelsea are screwed... if Mansour walks away, Citeh are screwed... Arsenal are in a fairly good position, because Wenger has given the club a position whereby it could build a new stadium, etc.

What's needed is an evolution of Wenger's strategy, not a revolution.

And as it stands right now, how are Arsenal doing? Not particularly well it seems. Arsenal /would/ be in a good position if Roman and Mansour weren't on the scene, but unfortunately they are, so they're going to have to adapt or perish. Surely Arsenal can't expect to fill that nice 60k stadium playing like they have been? Drop out of the Champions League, see the ticket sales falling, then we'll see how well run AFC really are. Everything at a football club inevitably comes down to on the pitch success. If the board aren't giving Wenger the tools (or he's just not using those on offer) to build a comptetive team, Arsenal are being ran no better than anyone else.

Unfortunately for Arsenals board they probably could have gotten away with it a little longer if Liverpool hadn't gotten new owners willing to inject some money. As it stands 'Pool are likely going to oust them from that 4th spot, and it's anyone's guess what Spurs will do.

I agree, they don't need a revolution. They just need Wenger to spend some of the supposed riches available to him to make his team top-4 competitive again. If he keeps the CL money coming in I'm sure the board will be more than happy to see it continue, even if the fans aren't.
 
I don't think it is a lack of trying to buy players, it is the players themselves saying they don't want to come to us. Mata and Hazard have both turned us down.

That slaughtering by Utd certainly isnt going to help our cause
 
I would have thought the reason was obvious, stability. A manager who has been there for years doing it his way. He gets away with spending less than the others at the minute because they haven't changed the manager every other season and wasting cash on a new managers team. It's the only reason Everton have survived the last 10 years as well.

The Russian does Manu favours. Had he kept Mourinho happy I doubt Manu would have won another title since the last one mourinho won. Instead they spend money on a new managers team and then the next and the next. None of which where as effective as his.

Complete tosh, the team were becoming very poor at the beginning of the season, this is Mourinho's MO, jump before the club become a turgid pile of crap. HE got fired for a reason, and that was boring football, Inter got bored of him and he's been forced to change his style at Real completely to keep his job, top clubs don't want ultra defensive football.

Utd were simply better and improved a lot, don't forget that Utd had Ronaldo have 2 insanely good seasons, theres only so much other clubs can do. Oh, and Ronaldo wasn't on crazy money, because Utd got him "cheap" and sold him for a huge profit and let another club foot the 250+k a week bill. You don't have to pay players 250k a week to win titles, Utd won titles by having players and selling a lot on for a profit before they want insane cash(except Rooney).

Think about this, if you got rid of Denilson, on 40k a week, who has barely played for 2 seasons, you could give RVP 140k a week, and not even have a difference in the wage bill. Eboue on 50-60k a week, started about 4 league games last year, thats cesc on 160k a week, again with no change to the budget.



No he's been over performing with the materials at his disposal. On one hand you praise Dein for his transfer dealings then on the other you now blame Wenger for not giving new signings/targets enough to get them there.

He just gives the the money men his targets and it's not his fault they offer what some regard derisory offers and not enough wages to stop them going to city.

It is a knee jerk reaction, some of you have changed your tune on this because of the drubbing you got at the hands of Manu. I remember when Manu fans wanted Fergie out because he had no plan B (you are all fond of saying) when they repeatedly played conservatively away from home in europe. He was apparently past it as well when Chelsea won the title 2 years running.

A manager with no plan B doesn't get as far as he has with the players he's had for the last 6 years.

Complete horsecrap, again, we have a 110mil wage bill thats ever increasing, Arsenal have done exactly what they should have, no more and no less, every year, except our football has been getting worse every year, every year our wage bill has increased and every year our squad has gotten worse for 6 years. Small budget, rubbish, look at City's spending on transfers vs wages in 10 years, their wages will DWARF their spending, look at Chelsea, wages WAY past their transfer spending now, Utd, wages vs spending on transfer, its all wages. Arsenal, its all wages. HALF A BILLION alone in the past failing 5 years, don't think Arsenal don't spend and are doing an epic job to compete, it makes you look ignorant.

Arsenal spend HUGE, and a HUGE turnover, have had a very good profit for years, have had money to spend for years, and have actively sold great player and bought significantly less good players in replacement, and stuck them on the same wages.

You've highlighted and talked about his failure....... he just identifies targets and leaves it to the money men? if it fails constantly over 6 years..... is it not the managers job to talk to the board, who he has full access to and a huge amount of clout with, and have them sort out the person who sorts out transfers? Can he not get involved himself and get it done faster? I like how you just transfer all blame away from him to someone else. Thats not how life works, if something isn't working and Wenger just ignores it for 6 years, thats still his fault. as for just leaving it to the money men and identifying targets, look who he has brought in, he's giving the money men the WRONG TARGETS constantly for 6-7 years now, again Wenger's fault.

Knee jerk reaction, because of one loss, you'd have a leg to stand on if no one had called for his head till today......... you KNOW that isn't the case in any way at all. Wenger has been making the SAME mistakes for over half a decade, sensible people have seen how bad this is for years and have wanted change for more than a few years.

For the record people are talking about the QUALITY of signing, not the abilty to get it done. We've made few top draw signings without Dein, which suggests to a lot of people that their may have been a good strong voice telling Wenger when he's getting it completely wrong.

Gilberto, to Song. Pires, to Hleb, to Theo. Lauren/Dixon to Sagna. Cesc to Ramsey, Henry to Chamakh, Ashley Cole/Silvinho/Clichy to Gibbs and Traore. Gallas to Djourou, the list goes on and on. The squad now, at full strength and injury free would get absolutely demolished by the old Arsenal side.
 
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I don't think it is a lack of trying to buy players, it is the players themselves saying they don't want to come to us. Mata and Hazard have both turned us down.

That slaughtering by Utd certainly isnt going to help our cause

Exactly players like Mata have no connection to our clubs. They have an agent talk to teams and see how much money if offered and chances of success. I'd be willing to bet Mata still wouldn't have gone to Arsenal even if they won the league and got to the CL final if Chelsea or City offered 50k+ per week more. On wages they cannot compete and without an owner willing to write off debt every week they never will be able to.

Exactly the same reasoning why Manu could keep hold of Rooney but not a Ronaldo. Ronaldo had no ties to this country, where as if Barca offered 250k for rooney per week he was never going to move to somewhere he couldn't order egg and chips for dinner ;)

He would never settle in a foreign country. Ronaldo though had got as united could afford. Doesn't his new contract finish on about half a million per week. United couldn't afford that.
 
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Have to laugh at some of the managerial suggestions, McLaren and Martin O'Neil made me laugh quite hard, both are average cheque book managers.

Football fans are so fickle, Wenger has made Arsenal the team they are without the financial support that other like Chelsea, Man United, Man City etc are privvy to, he's put the club on a sound footing by not wasting money while still keeping the club competitive.

The Newcastle draw aside where you would think they should have won, playing a big spending Liverpool team and Man Utd was always a very tough start to the season, the size of the defeat was obviously pretty bad on paper but these things happen from time to time, changing the manager would result in Arsenal quickly becoming a mid table club and in a few years time the fans will be harking back to the Wenger days.
 
changing the manager would result in Arsenal quickly becoming a mid table club and in a few years time the fans will be harking back to the Wenger days.

It was quite funny listening to 606 last night. Arsenal fans banging on about Wenger inheriting a team and defence from Graham. Another caller then phoned in and listed the actual good defensive buys Wenger had made and how short fans memories are.
 
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/arsenal-thanks

ouch

Arsenal Football Club has announced it will be writing to fans who travelled to Old Trafford on Sunday with an offer to cover the cost of a match ticket at a future Barclays Premier League away game.

A Club statement issued today said: "Sunday's result was obviously disappointing for everyone connected with the Club. Our travelling fans were magnificent throughout and we want to recognise their fantastic support. We will be writing to them shortly with the details."
 
Complete tosh, the team were becoming very poor at the beginning of the season, this is Mourinho's MO, jump before the club become a turgid pile of crap. HE got fired for a reason, and that was boring football, Inter got bored of him and he's been forced to change his style at Real completely to keep his job, top clubs don't want ultra defensive football.

Utd were simply better and improved a lot, don't forget that Utd had Ronaldo have 2 insanely good seasons, theres only so much other clubs can do. Oh, and Ronaldo wasn't on crazy money, because Utd got him "cheap" and sold him for a huge profit and let another club foot the 250+k a week bill. You don't have to pay players 250k a week to win titles, Utd won titles by having players and selling a lot on for a profit before they want insane cash(except Rooney).

Think about this, if you got rid of Denilson, on 40k a week, who has barely played for 2 seasons, you could give RVP 140k a week, and not even have a difference in the wage bill. Eboue on 50-60k a week, started about 4 league games last year, thats cesc on 160k a week, again with no change to the budget.





Complete horsecrap, again, we have a 110mil wage bill thats ever increasing, Arsenal have done exactly what they should have, no more and no less, every year, except our football has been getting worse every year, every year our wage bill has increased and every year our squad has gotten worse for 6 years. Small budget, rubbish, look at City's spending on transfers vs wages in 10 years, their wages will DWARF their spending, look at Chelsea, wages WAY past their transfer spending now, Utd, wages vs spending on transfer, its all wages. Arsenal, its all wages. HALF A BILLION alone in the past failing 5 years, don't think Arsenal don't spend and are doing an epic job to compete, it makes you look ignorant.

Arsenal spend HUGE, and a HUGE turnover, have had a very good profit for years, have had money to spend for years, and have actively sold great player and bought significantly less good players in replacement, and stuck them on the same wages.

You've highlighted and talked about his failure....... he just identifies targets and leaves it to the money men? if it fails constantly over 6 years..... is it not the managers job to talk to the board, who he has full access to and a huge amount of clout with, and have them sort out the person who sorts out transfers? Can he not get involved himself and get it done faster? I like how you just transfer all blame away from him to someone else. Thats not how life works, if something isn't working and Wenger just ignores it for 6 years, thats still his fault. as for just leaving it to the money men and identifying targets, look who he has brought in, he's giving the money men the WRONG TARGETS constantly for 6-7 years now, again Wenger's fault.

Knee jerk reaction, because of one loss, you'd have a leg to stand on if no one had called for his head till today......... you KNOW that isn't the case in any way at all. Wenger has been making the SAME mistakes for over half a decade, sensible people have seen how bad this is for years and have wanted change for more than a few years.

For the record people are talking about the QUALITY of signing, not the abilty to get it done. We've made few top draw signings without Dein, which suggests to a lot of people that their may have been a good strong voice telling Wenger when he's getting it completely wrong.

Gilberto, to Song. Pires, to Hleb, to Theo. Lauren/Dixon to Sagna. Cesc to Ramsey, Henry to Chamakh, Ashley Cole/Silvinho/Clichy to Gibbs and Traore. Gallas to Djourou, the list goes on and on. The squad now, at full strength and injury free would get absolutely demolished by the old Arsenal side.

I agree, except, that Mourinho backed up his boring defensive football with Trophes.

Premier league, Seria A and Champions league.

Whats more important, good entertaining football, or Trophies?

Arent we saying that Arsenal need to lose some of the entertainment for a little bit more defensive football?

We need George Graham in to sort out the defense!

I love Arsene Wenger, but I also cant wait for the day he leaves. He has lost the plot, and is not fixing glaring squad issues at the club.

If a manager is not doing their job, then what good is it how respected they are?

*

Also why on earth did we sell Eboue and play Jenkinson?

Eboue compared to Jenkinson, is experienced, strong, pace, can cross.....

Madness!

Another interesting blog post.

Are we experiencing these issues due to the board split at the top of the chain. Kronke vs Usmanov?

This pressure will continue building untill something snaps.
 
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I'm not sure if Wenger really has lost the plot or if there's more to this than meets the eye. Some of the decisions that have been made this summer are nothing short of madness.

Nasri seemingly made it perfectly clear a long time ago that he wasn't signing a new deal and there were offers on the table from both Utd and City right at the start of pre-season. It was inevitable that he was going so why not get it done and look to move on? Equally, where's the sense in letting both Eboue and Clichy go with Jenkinson as the only replacement? Arsenal are now left with 1 proven first-team full back and 2 unproven kids (1 of which is a crock).

The CB issue, I have a bit of sympathy for him. Yes Arsenal have problems there but as I mentioned previously, over the last couple of seasons he's signed 3 CB's for £20m+. If Wenger went out and signed any old CB tomorrow it would shut up a lot of fans but if he turns out as good as the 2 whose names I won't even try to spell then they're in the same position. If they're to sign a CB, they've got to make sure it's the right player and that they're not signing somebody for the sake of it.

My biggest criticism of Arsenal/Wenger is the mentality of the side and the lack of leadership and experience. Arsenal's form post-CC final is no coincidence and they should be thankful for the international break this week because had they played Swansea this week after the hammering yesterday, I could have seen them getting beat again.

The lack of leadership and experience won't just harm them in the short-term but it might harm them long-term too. Who have Wilshere, Ramsey, Fimpong etc got to look up to and learn from? One of Houllier's best signings as Liverpool manager was Gary McAllister; the season we were going for the 3 Cups and CL qualification he was as important as any other player in the squad. For 3/4's of the season he didn't play a huge part but towards the back end of the season his contribution was as big as anyones; the team were looking nervous are weren't playing great but he stepped up and put in the performances and scored the goals that got us into the CL and won us the Cups. However his biggest contribution was probably the influence he had on the likes of Gerrard. Arsenal need a Gary McAllister type player that can step in when Ramsey or Wilshere are struggling and can help develop them as players.

As well as a Gary Mac, they need somebody like Jamie Carragher. He's well past his best and I'm sure Arsenal fans won't like me for saying it but they could do a lot worse than him in their squad. The organisation of Arsenal's back line at the weekend was truly embarrassing. They need somebody that will grab hold of them, push, pull and drag them into position and Carra would do that (and he'd do it to the opposition forwards too (before the jokes start)).
 
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