Show Us Your Motors!

Souljacker · 10 Feb 2016 at 19:56

I just dropped a load of money getting the compression arms done, but she never fails to make me smile!

350z by Kyle Shearer, on Flickr

Nissan 350z by Kyle Shearer, on Flickr

Cairn O' Mounth by Kyle Shearer, on Flickr

Jono8 · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:02

.:SAmSuNG:. said:
Sure it wasn't a diesel one mate? They are like 70bhp less i think. Look exactly the same though. ST is just a trim level now not a specific model.

No it isn't. They just do a diesel ST now as well as a petrol one. It is not a "trim level" like s-line or m-sport is.

Jono8 · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:03

geekman said:
Well, having seen the figures it would appear I have!

I'm kind of surprised, I thought in this age of Golf R's and 335d's it'd be a bit quicker. Still more than adequate though!

Golf R's and 335d's are not in the same price bracket as a Focus ST. The starting RRP of a Golf R is nearly 10k more than a Focus ST and isn't a 335d almost another 10k on top of that?

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:10

Jono8 said:
No it isn't. They just do a diesel ST now as well as a petrol one. It is not a "trim level" like s-line or m-sport is.

What is different about ST that makes it 'not a trim level' in the way that S-Line 'is a trim level'?

Jono8 · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:14

[TW]Fox;29159958 said:
What is different about ST that makes it 'not a trim level' in the way that S-Line 'is a trim level'?

Well, you can't apply the "ST" spec to all the engines, or even more than one (well one of each, petrol or diesel).

There is a petrol ST and a diesel ST and that it is it, and they each have their own separate trim/equipment levels (ST1,2, 3 etc).

With a BMW, can't you pretty much get a 118i m-sport, a 120d m-sport, a 120i m-sport, e.t.c.? Likewise with Audi, can't you get s line trim on pretty much any of their models/engines?

mrk · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:18

It's no AMv8, but still looks neat for its age, especially for a ragtop

BMW got the wheel to arch size ratio just right with the E46 IMO. not too much gap, just enough to look good. Although I know the spring rates on the convertible are different and it sits a tad lower and cars specced with different options had different factory spring rates too.

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:43

Jono8 said:
Well, you can't apply the "ST" spec to all the engines, or even more than one (well one of each, petrol or diesel).

But you can have multiple engine choices in the ST range.

With a BMW, can't you pretty much get a 118i m-sport, a 120d m-sport, a 120i m-sport, e.t.c.? Likewise with Audi, can't you get s line trim on pretty much any of their models/engines?

If this is the only difference you can think of I think you've just demonstrated the point..

wingman · 10 Feb 2016 at 20:57

The point is that there are models you can't spec as 'ST' in the Ford range, whereas there are no models you can't spec 'M-Sport' in the BMW range.

That may be the only point, sure - but I wouldn't consider the ST a "trim" level myself. You choose the ST model on the Ford config, then you choose the engine. All of which are only available within each other, i.e. you can't have the diesel ST engine in a non ST model, and you can't have a "normal" engine in the ST range.

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:05

wingman said:
The point is that there are models you can't spec as 'ST' in the Ford range, whereas there are no models you can't spec 'M-Sport' in the BMW range.

This seems irrelevant. Plus it wasn't always the case - there used to be models you couldn't spec as Sport.

wingman · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:07

How is it irrelevant? It's the exact point that Jono was trying to make which you shot down...

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:14

I don't understand how whether something is a trim level or not is entirely down to how many engines in the range it can be combined with.

Ghia X could only be found on a couple of the Mondeo engines, by this logic it makes it not a trim level?

Jono8 · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:16

[TW]Fox;29160246 said:
I don't understand how whether something is a trim level or not is entirely down to how many engines in the range it can be combined with.

Ghia X could only be found on a couple of the Mondeo engines, by this logic it makes it not a trim level?

Do you consider an Audi "RS" or BMW "M" car a trim level?

My original point was more taking objection to the guy saying it is "now just a trim level", because nothing has changed except they do a diesel version in the Focus now.

Ford have their own separate brochures for the ST models, do Audi and BMW have separate brochures for "S-line" and "M-sport" cars?

There probably isn't a standard definition of what a 'trim level' is, but what is it for you?

wingman · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:21

[TW]Fox;29160246 said:
I don't understand how whether something is a trim level or not is entirely down to how many engines in the range it can be combined with.

Ghia X could only be found on a couple of the Mondeo engines, by this logic it makes it not a trim level?

My way of thinking is that when it can be combined to every model, it's a trim. When it's designated to specific engines in a "range", i.e. ST, RS, M, AMG etc. it's an actual model.

AMG is actually the perfect example, there's AMG trim, and then there's proper AMG models.

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:28

Jono8 said:
Do you consider an Audi "RS" or BMW "M" car a trim level?

No, because there is only one and usually it sits at the very top of the range.

For the Focus, this would be the Focus RS surely?

My original point was more taking objection to the guy saying it is "now just a trim level", because nothing has changed except they do a diesel version in the Focus now.

I think that means everything has changed - the availability of a choice of engines is what makes something a trim level, in my view anyway.

Ford have their own separate brochures for the ST models, do Audi and BMW have separate brochures for "S-line" and "M-sport" cars?

That's a marketing decision.

There probably isn't a standard definition of what a 'trim level' is, but what is it for you?

Completely bespoke mechanicals and a single engine option probably takes something beyond the realms of a trim level.

Sports suspension, a bodykit, some nice seats and a choice of engines feels more like a trim level thing to me than a model in its own right.

I'm not entirely sure why something being seen as a 'trim level' is necessarily negative though. Why is it a bad thing? It results in more choice..

NickXX · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:31

Cheers guys- I've still got the M3, treating it to some refurbished wheels this weekend. It won't be going anywhere!

There wasn't really anything else that I considered tbh. I was after sense of occasion over speed or anything else. Nothing really came close for me for anywhere near the price. The only other cars I'd consider would be the 430 or 997 GT3 which are another magnitude in price. I'm not one to chop and change cars, so it had to be something I was prepared to keep for a while without losing too much in depreciation.

It's purely a weekend/holiday car, and looks/sounds fantastic. Certainly feels very special driving it.

Antony101 · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:32

It's the same as A3, S3 and RS3. They are all different versions of the same model of car, in no way are any of them a "trim level".

Is the S4 just a higher level trim version of the A4? Is the RS4 just a nicer S4?

You CANNOT spec a standard Focus with the engines available in the ST.

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:37

Antony101 said:
Is the S4 just a higher level trim version of the A4?

Yup?

Otherwise what is its direct competitor - the 340i M Sport? Nobody would argue thats not a trim level...

The S4 is an S4 for marketing reasons, it's an A4 3.0TFSI S-Line effectively. BMW have caught on to that too hence the M135i instead of the previous 135i M Sport...

You CANNOT spec a standard Focus with the engines available in the ST.

So? You can't spec a standard 5 Series SE with the V8 either, loads of cars have engine and trim level combinations which are not possible.

These are all different trim levels of Audi A4, Ford Focus, BMW 3 Series or whatever. The fact some trim levels are unavailable some engine combinations is surely neither here nor there. Why is this such a contentious issue anyway? It's not like saying 'M Sport is a trim level' is like saying 'OMG M SPORT IS HORRIBLE' is it :confused:

Jono8 · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:38

[TW]Fox;29160318 said:
No, because there is only one and usually it sits at the very top of the range.

For the Focus, this would be the Focus RS surely?

I think that means everything has changed - the availability of a choice of engines is what makes something a trim level, in my view anyway.

That's a marketing decision.

Completely bespoke mechanicals and a single engine option probably takes something beyond the realms of a trim level.

Sports suspension, a bodykit, some nice seats and a choice of engines feels more like a trim level thing to me than a model in its own right.

I'm not entirely sure why something being seen as a 'trim level' is necessarily negative though. Why is it a bad thing? It results in more choice..

Who said it was negative?

Anyway, by your definition the Fiesta ST is a model/car in its own right but the Focus ST is not and is just a trim level right?

As i said before, you apply a trim level TO the ST cars (ST 1, 2 and 3), so you apply a trim level to a trim level?

Behemoth · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:42

Tom|Nbk said:
TT Arches

lol I've only just noticed them myself now that you've pointed them out.

Still happy with it though, Mrs drove it to Bromley from here in Weston, she brimmed it car only took £34 off her, thats what 200 miles, shes used quarter of a tank. I'd say a very respectable 50 mpg

[TW]Fox · 10 Feb 2016 at 21:43

Jono8 said:
Who said it was negative?

The outrage that tends to accompany any suggestion that something might be a trim level