Sim racers - what are you running?

MassiveJim said:
Have a look at this

www.upshiftstore.co.uk

Upshift R-PRO Black Edition Aluminium Profile Sim Racing Rig

Experience professional sim racing with the Upshift R-PRO Black Edition Sim Rig, a rock solid 80x40mm aluminium profile sim rig with bespoke single-piece steel drilled wheel plate and pedal plate. Maximum rigidity & strength, highly adjustable, easy assembly & a low price; the best value for...
www.upshiftstore.co.uk www.upshiftstore.co.uk

Essentially the same rig as trak racer etc but quite a bit cheaper

I had already ordered one from somewhere else when I found this, but I would have ordered this one, they told me delivery is next day as well.
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My purchase plan had this rig in there for the longest time, and my plan was to buy some additional 80x40 lengths to add inverted brakes. I even priced up making my own rig and I think it was about £350 for the extrusion and end-plates. £399 delivered is a fantastic price for something ready to build.
Then in the last week I figured because I was gonna spend ~£100 on the TR front mount, plus the extra extrusion, it was just going to be easier being lazy and overpaying for the TR120 config I wanted.

I really don’t think there’s going to be an awful lot of difference between this and a TR or similar.
 
So... I managed to get all my new gear built about a week ago and im still dealing with what im hoping is teething problems with getting everything exactly where it needs to be and liking how it feels. However right now its just leaving me somewhat underwhelmed and disinterested.
I knew i'd have an underwhelmed moment, its £4.5k worth of gear and i wasnt expecting it to immediately feel like it justified the cost, but i knew if i spent half as much, i'd likely want to upgrade it in the future and i'd end up here eventually, plus i know i bought good quality items so it should last a decade all being well so it'll offer value over time.

The issues are just silly things really, but my health isnt great and part of that means i have low energy & minimal strength, so all the tweaking on a heavy rig quickly leaves me drained and so all im doing is adjusting and then hopping in the seat to get a feel for what ive adjusted, but not do any laps cos im just tired and kinda burnt out with it after 30-60min. What isnt helping is uncertainty over my understanding of how its meant to feel, because i think im trying things that are they probably arent intended to do, and making life harder to get into the sweet spot, and its been so long since ive done any sim racing, on basic Logitech hardware, that it feels a little alien to me without adding moronic implementation of items.

Without going through all the info for the hassle ive had trying to find the sweet spot for the pedals/pedal plate, i could do with a couple of things clarifying so i at least know if my latest thinking/understanding is correct or close, cos i got my head spun trying to figure things out...

Q1 - On the throttle pedal (VX-Pro, but suspect that isnt important), am i correct in thinking that i need to calibrate the pedal so that my 0-100% output is utilising only the sprung part of the load, and stops just short of the direct load on loadcell portion... if that makes sense. eg i shouldnt need to stamp on the pedal in order to get additional throttle range. i'd get 0-100% in the squishy spring portion.

Does that seem right? Thats the idea im working with currently, and right now im having a little difficulty configuring the throttle to so it feels right. The spring has 3 positions that increase/decrease the stiffness, the first is upright and its like a rock, the third is lighter than air and feels impossible to replicate say 60% throttle over and over consistently, and then the middle option is reasonable but i cant quite find a way to not make it a little uncomfortable pushing for 100% throttle.
Part of the reason it feels uncomfortable is down to the pedals being very upright, and unless i put some weight on the pedal, and add some deadzone, its quite uncomfortable keeping my foot in a 0% throttle position, however any deadzone eats into the limited throttle travel. What ive done is tilt the pedal plate back a little, which helps with the resting foot angle, but right now it might be a little too much as its uncomfortable pushing for 100% of the sprung load. Hopefully i can find a middle ground, otherwise i might have to get used to a pedal thats a little stiffer than i'd like.

So im hoping if i can clarify whether or not i need to calibrate the throttle to only utilise the sprung range of load, i'll continue working to find a sweet spot for that, and not waste time if im going in the wrong direction.


Q2 - I presume with the brake pedal you DO want to use some of the excess load beyond the sprung section? In my head, im thinking 0-90% brake IG would be within the sprung load, and then a little beyond that for 'oh f....' braking?
If thats correct, then thats something i think is going to be problematic due to my poor strength. They sell a brake kit which contains 2 softer springs and 2 plates which i think change the spring angle profile which might be in-between positions compared to stock. The springs i dont think would help, cos the sprung portion i can manage, and not sure if modified spring angles matter either. So i might contact Simgrade and ask for their thoughts, and see if they'd sell me a 100kg LC (if they think it'd help).

If im nowhere near understanding how its meant to be, if someone could spell it out for me, i'd appreciate it. It really sucks that theres very few places where you can see and try this hardware, and those that do exist, want £50 for 30min etc. I wouldnt mind if they knocked it off any purchase made so the local kids didnt swarm the place, but paying more to try something, sucks.
 
Seems to me that you are worrying too much about how it "should" be rather than setting it up in a way that works for you.
Even more so in your case if your health is an issue.

You need to set it up in a way that when you are using it it feels right, guides online will point you in the right direction but ultimately you need to customise it for yourself.
as an example, the brake pedal generally is setup to need quite a lot of pressure to get full braking power, but if you are getting fatigue in your legs or can't comfortably press it that hard, then its daft to set it up that way.

The accelerator pedal is not a load cell, it should be fairly easy to press it all the way down to the stop, any additional pressure after that point will not be doing anything.
 
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I guess i should have added some pics or something, i didnt think they were drastically different to 90% of loadcell pedals, but all 3 of the pedals utilise a loadcell to measure the input.
Simgrade refer to them as having 2 phases, the sprung part, and then the loadcell. You can use either phases on their own, or both.

photo_6_2023-08-28_17-43-55.webp


Here's a clip from Dan Suzuki explaining it in 17sec (ugh, cant embed YouTube clips): https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxR1xbTGuW3kSXtpRdv5ZXHvJCqaygG3kC
Thats how the pedal utilises both a spring and a loadcell. While the spring is being compressed, its still transferring some pressure onto the loadcell, before it hits the end-stop, and then im guessing it acts like a regular rigid loadcell pedal.


From there, yeah its entirely up to me how to set the up, however as im trying to figure out multiple aspects out at the same time, things keep changing and it'd just be helpful to know what a baseline setup would be. I dont really know why, but ive just been making really stupid decisions, which i should know werent going to work and it makes no sense to try it, and im just getting rather overwhelmed by the task, then throw in the cost of it all, and instead of enjoying it, im getting nowhere and it doesnt quite feel right. Its led to me getting a bit demoralised by it all so i took a week away and now im trying to get my head around it, and im thinking its worth double-checking im pointing in the right direction cos i realise ive been in completely the wrong ballpark at times.


So right now im just looking for clarification that for the throttle, im best using only the sprung section. Then with the brake pedal, im thinking 90% spring, and then use a little of the loadcell and have max braking require you to put in the extra force beyond the sprung part. If im better of going 100% rigid, then i'll either need to buy their brake kit, or see if they'd sell me a 100k loadcell and swap it out.
I've had the pedals like that today, and it feels much better, and im about to adjust the pedal placement so its about an inch little closer, hopefully that doesnt bring issues back up. Its starting to feel somewhat right, however doing laps in ACC im absolutely horrific :D I'm used to doing 6-24h endurance races and smaller league stuff, and right now im forgetting to downshift when braking for a corner about 75% of the time!
 
Made a few more minor adjustments to the pedals, moved the wheelbase height, and adjusted the seat angle & height and i think ive finally got something that i feels comfortable and enjoyable.
I assume that with any LC brake pedal that has movement before the loadcell, the movement replicates the brake pad being moved to the disc, and then its near-rigid as your pushing the pad against the disc. So in terms of realism, i dont really want a long pedal similar to the throttle. Is that right?

I also found that the SC2 ACC profile i was using from Dan Suzuki isnt to my liking and was heavily contributing to me horrific driving. Loading the ACC default profile it felt much more familiar and i was doing the sort of laps i'd originally expected given the 6yr break. Apparently im also more of a weakling than i'd expected. I have the wheel on 'Safe Torque' mode (i think thats the name) where its limited to 4.4nm, and i've had to dial the forces down to 50% in-game. :o:D
 
On a budget and with no intention of going beyond something similar to a G29, i'd imagine the Playseat Evolution is a pretty solid buy considering a budget seat prices start around there.
If you might want something fancier in the future, then the Upshift rig is a great price (link & comments about 6-10 posts back), but it'll take up a bit more room and its heavy, and while you can get wheels, its gonna cost around £600 once you add in a seat, but you'll be able to upgrade to about 90% of the DD wheelbases, with only the extreme Nm force wheels being ruled out, and attach things like gearboxes & handbrakes if your into all that stuff.
 
Dominic-Toretto said:
Any reccomendations for a budget rig? Is the Playseat evolution with a logitech g29 any good? Only for forza. Want to be able to move it in and out of the room ideally, any with wheels?
Click to expand...

I use a playseat challenge, and find it very good for what it is.. folds away nicely when not in use, and takes mere seconds to put up and plug in..

although I use it in VR, so can't comment on it's use with a screen.
 
Does anyone have the GT Omega Chase bucket seat - How is the seat width?
I'm tall and slim but 36cm internal width seems like it would be a very tight squeeze to fit?
 
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PaulC2K said:
Q1 - On the throttle pedal (VX-Pro, but suspect that isnt important), am i correct in thinking that i need to calibrate the pedal so that my 0-100% output is utilising only the sprung part of the load, and stops just short of the direct load on loadcell portion... if that makes sense. eg i shouldnt need to stamp on the pedal in order to get additional throttle range. i'd get 0-100% in the squishy spring portion.
Click to expand...
You calibrate for the full pedal movement. So the spring is '80%' and the 'load cell portion' should be 100%.
 
Dominic-Toretto said:
Any reccomendations for a budget rig? Is the Playseat evolution with a logitech g29 any good? Only for forza. Want to be able to move it in and out of the room ideally, any with wheels?
Click to expand...
find si turnbull on facebook, £180ish will get you an aluminium profile rig, That is what i have done, then bought a used car seat for £40.
you can get castors off ebay that will fit on it for about £20.

it will be far more solid than that playseat, but as said above bigger and heavier
 
So been playing a few weeks now and slowly getting better.
Can you post your times for Spa in a GT3.
preferably in ACC. but I guess it's all relevant.
I've managed a 2.25.357 tonight. Finding it difficult though.
Acc is telling me I've done 42 valid laps and 197 invalid ones. :cry:
 
MassiveJim said:
So been playing a few weeks now and slowly getting better.
Can you post your times for Spa in a GT3.
preferably in ACC. but I guess it's all relevant.
I've managed a 2.25.357 tonight. Finding it difficult though.
Acc is telling me I've done 42 valid laps and 197 invalid ones. :cry:
Click to expand...
An all too familiar story :D

I just did about 10 laps, 5 in the Mclaren 720, and the same in the Ferrari 488. I've done 2-3 laps there in the Lambo but thats it.
Both stock setups, and i think i did 2:28's in the Macca, and 2:25.1 in the Ferrari. I think sub-20s is where its at, but you'd definitely need a half decent setup for that to be possible, im pretty sure theres a few corners that can be taken flat that the stock setup makes you lift/coast for otherwise you understeer wide.
I didnt do a single clean lap in the Macca, it just oversteered too much, whereas the Ferrari was a little better and easier to drive, and i think 3 of 4 were clean.

Consistency is something ive always struggled with. I'll run wide pushing on the exit, and then the next time round i'll know this and completely ignore it trying to push too hard :D
Eventually i'll find the limit and once ive done it enough times it'll sink in, but thats one of my main weaknesses. I think I used to try and aim for a time around 102% of the top times, knowing that was the limit for me.
 
MassiveJim said:
So been playing a few weeks now and slowly getting better.
Can you post your times for Spa in a GT3.
preferably in ACC. but I guess it's all relevant.
I've managed a 2.25.357 tonight. Finding it difficult though.
Acc is telling me I've done 42 valid laps and 197 invalid ones. :cry:
Click to expand...
My times for spa are 2:19 - 2:20 that's if I'm make it over Raidillon lol.
 
PaulC2K said:
An all too familiar story :D

I just did about 10 laps, 5 in the Mclaren 720, and the same in the Ferrari 488. I've done 2-3 laps there in the Lambo but thats it.
Both stock setups, and i think i did 2:28's in the Macca, and 2:25.1 in the Ferrari. I think sub-20s is where its at, but you'd definitely need a half decent setup for that to be possible, im pretty sure theres a few corners that can be taken flat that the stock setup makes you lift/coast for otherwise you understeer wide.
I didnt do a single clean lap in the Macca, it just oversteered too much, whereas the Ferrari was a little better and easier to drive, and i think 3 of 4 were clean.

Consistency is something ive always struggled with. I'll run wide pushing on the exit, and then the next time round i'll know this and completely ignore it trying to push too hard :D
Eventually i'll find the limit and once ive done it enough times it'll sink in, but thats one of my main weaknesses. I think I used to try and aim for a time around 102% of the top times, knowing that was the limit for me.
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I was using the ferrari 488 with default safe setup, then thought i would try trhe 2019 lambo, it seemed faster, so tried it with the default aggressive setup and found I was able to actually drive it.
Every other car that I have tried with default aggressive ends up with a car that is so twitchy I almost always end up completely spinning out on a corner.
I've just tried the latest lambo and its slightly more twitchy than the 2019 one.

and as for @burtie those kind of times just seem to be a pipe dream to me at this point, I just can't see how I would find 5+ seconds a lap.

I see some people online commenting that they are taking eau rouge/ radillion flat out, this just isn't possible for me, but I'm happy enough with a slight lift mid corner
 
Yeah theres a significant difference between default setups and a good custom setup, i hadnt even realised there were safe & aggressive setups. Im only really messing about in ACC to try and set things up with the rig, and now that i think its comfortable i've signed up for iRacing again.

I decided to try a session with AI, and did MX5 at Okayama, and it immediately felt right to me, familiar etc. Apparently my last race was Sept '14, so almost 10yrs ago, and i can feel the weight of the car moving about much better compared to the G27. I used to be terrible for letting a RWD car step out, and i always felt like some corners i was reacting to something i knew would happening through repetition in practice, and not reacting the the FFB because there was no indication. The SC2 just seems to have more detail and i can feel it going light. That said, it hasnt stopped me from going wide somewhere every lap, we havent invented technology powerful enough for that ;)
 
MassiveJim said:
So been playing a few weeks now and slowly getting better.
Can you post your times for Spa in a GT3.
preferably in ACC. but I guess it's all relevant.
I've managed a 2.25.357 tonight. Finding it difficult though.
Acc is telling me I've done 42 valid laps and 197 invalid ones. :cry:
Click to expand...

ACC Spa - I’m high 2:16’s - mid 2:17’s using the 488, on a track with optimum conditions.

I remember when I started on Spa and saw the times of other drivers, seeing 2:20 seemed impossible, when I was struggling to get a 2:25.
Track practice, a good setup and understanding where to brake and start accelerating helps. Seems obvious but being able to do it accurately takes practice.

Trail braking really helps reduce time on a couple of corners too - e.g. The Les Combes chicane : I start full braking just after the entry curb starts on the left, I’m still easing off the brakes as I go through it, to ensure a correct line so I can then go straight away full on the power on the approach and all the way through Malmedy. This takes quite a bit practice to get right, without going offline or track limits.
The exit of La Source and Campus you need to be on full throttle as early as possible, no later than mid corner exit.

It’s easy to lose 0.5+ seconds per corner without even realising you are losing time. Even on a good lap, you can lose a few tenths from missing braking or throttle by a very small margin. Add this up over 2-3 corners and suddenly you’re over a half second back.

I’m also adjusting brake balance and traction control through the lap.

A screenshot I took a few months back of close qualifying on open ACC servers at Spa

53930736108_0aca175ef8_b.jpg



In other news.
GT Omega have launched a limited edition run of their Chase and Inertia bucket seats in blue. So I ordered the Chase version and their Prime Lite cockpit on Friday. Looking forward to having a proper profile rig, instead of the Next Level Racing fold away setup :o

 
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