Singapore Grand Prix 2010, Marina Bay Street Circuit - Race 15/19

[gord]

This.
He chose to be ultra aggressive in an attempt to close off the line. It didn't work.

That completely contradicts what Hamilton says though, and he was in the car. He thought he was past Webber and can't see him, which is reasonable because Webber takes the dirty inside line. Webber can't stop the car appropriately on the marbles and hits Lewis. Which 99% of the time results in front suspension damage.

He was defending because he hadn't yet been completely overtaken. He's certainly not trying an overtake of his own, when the other car hasn't managed to get more than half the car in front.

Some people are forgetting that Webber is halfway alongside Hamilton at the apex of the corner due to his entry speed, which is too fast to maintain his line. Hamilton doesn't give him the space because it is definitely not his prerogative to. Just as Massa closed Hamilton out at Monza, Hamilton does the same to Webber, whether it's coming from behind or partially overtaken is irrelevant, the cars are in the same positions, halfway alongside at the apex.

It is through Webber's misjudgement of the corner and luck that he doesn't come away with a DNF due to front suspension damage and removes Lewis at the same time.

 

[Kenai]

whether it's coming from behind or partially overtaken is irrelevant

This is where I disagree, I don't think it is irrelevant at all - it's a very different situation when one car is cutting across another that they've barely overtaken compared to one lunging madly up the inside of a car they were nowhere.

I don't see that the two situations are the same at all and I see the differences in circumstance as completely relevant.

(FWIW - I don't want people to take this as me arguing Hamilton is solely to blame, that's absolutely not the case. I just think it comes down to two guys refusing to give each other the inch and not wanting to lose out and that ultimately resulting in a collision. There were things both could have done but neither did. I don't think either one really deserves more blame than the other)

 

[Django x2]

I'm not sure LH is out completely. Just need a DNF from webber, and given Redbulls reliability at the start of the season that's possible, and he could still take it.

What's the bet it comes down to Abu Dhabi........

 

[Glaucus]

What's the bet it comes down to Abu Dhabi........

Very high. I'm expecting 2 maybe three to still be able to clinch it. But I expect one of them to be ~20 points in the lead. meaning they just need a finish in the points.

 

[Cavallino]

In other news.. dont know if its been mentioned but Sutil got a 20 second penalty. Massa to 9th lol.

 

[Cavallino]

Haha strike that hes now 8th! Hulkenberg also given a penalty.

Nico Hulkenberg has been handed a 20-second penalty following a protest by the Force India team in Singapore.

The Silverstone-based squad protested against Hulkenberg after its own driver Adrian Sutil was given a 20-second penalty for having gained from going around the outside of Turn 7 on the opening lap of the race.

The team felt the Williams driver has also gained from cutting a corner.

Sutil, who had finished the race in eighth, was demoted to 10th, but has now moved to ninth following Hulkenberg's penalty.

The Williams driver, meanwhile, drops to 10th.

The penalty means Force India is back in front of Williams in the Constructors' Championship. Force India has also confirmed it has withdrawn its protest against Sutil's penalty decision.

Ferrari's Felipe Massa, having finished in 10th, moves up to eighth.

REVISED RACE RESULTS

Classified:

Pos Driver Team
1. Alonso Ferrari
2. Vettel Red Bull-Renault
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault
4. Button McLaren-Mercedes
5. Rosberg Mercedes
6. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth
7. Kubica Renault
8. Massa Ferrari

 

[Kenai]

In other news.. dont know if its been mentioned but Sutil got a 20 second penalty. Massa to 9th lol.

Hulkenberg too, Massa 8th.

edit - ffs

 

[ps3ud0]

"Always one"?

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=136228

Only 13% of the Autosport forum believe it was Hamilton's fault.

29% believe it was Webber's fault. And 56% believe it was a racing incident (well duh!)

Think the second poll on that link is far more noteworthy - if Webber had been allowed the space the vast majority think he would have had a slow exit and therefore Hamilton being in the better position would have just completed his pass just after the exit of the corner.

I think thats what a lot of people are trying to say - Hamilton didnt need to do what he did to ensure getting past Webber (and avoid a collision), but he decided to risk it and it didnt pull off. Webber was not going to do anything to give up that place rightly or wrongly - Hamilton knows that full well...

LOL @Gords point that it wasnt Hamiltons prerogative to give Webber room - if he had he would have got a podium - I assume he likes getting points?!?

ps3ud0

 

[Cavallino]

Hulkenberg too, Massa 8th.

edit - ffs

 

[gord]

I just think it comes down to two guys refusing to give each other the inch and not wanting to lose out and that ultimately resulting in a collision. There were things both could have done but neither did. I don't think either one really deserves more blame than the other.

I agree with the first part. I wouldn't want to see racing where they don't fight, and as such I think the stewards made the right decision.

Nonetheless, as the driver coming from behind, on the dirty side, after making a mistake behind a back marker and being slipped on the straight, I think it is more Mark's responsibility to avoid Hamilton. Infact, I think it is part of the misjudgement on Mark's behalf that he didn't think Hamilton would take the fastest line through the corner after being slipped on the straight.

I think Mark knows he has being massively lucky today, it might just give him the boost to take the title.

LOL @Gords point that it wasnt Hamiltons prerogative to give Webber room - if he had he would have got a podium - I assume he likes getting points?!?

ps3ud0

Let's not go down the if road. That's for kids with wild imaginations that will have meteors hitting the race track and Nemo winning the drivers world championship.

Fact is, Lewis didn't know where Webber was.

 

[Kenai]

Fact is, Lewis didn't know where Webber was.

Which is what I said way back when, but in that scenario I think it can be viewed as somewhat silly, when if he can't see him, knowing what Webber is like, he elected to just throw his car at the apex rather than taking the corner a bit wider to be on the safe side.

 

[Tenzen]

Ill say it again , Hamilton does not make clean overtakes! Definitely needs to brush up on his overtaking skills, he is getting more leery with each race. He had acres to get by the corner without incident, Webber was on the line, Hamilton wanted to be -only space for one car and was always going to end in an incident, Hamilton should have been a bit more conservative in his efforts. Young and reckless, he'll improve with age.

Good result for the championship. Still wide open. Alonso is looking v strong.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ill say it again , Hamilton does not make clean overtakes! Definitely needs to brush up on his overtaking skills, he is getting more leery with each race. He had acres to get by the corner without incident, Webber was on the line, Hamilton wanted to be -only space for one car and was always going to end in an incident, Hamilton should have been a bit more conservative in his efforts. Young and reckless, he'll improve with age.

Good result for the championship. Still wide open. Alonso is looking v strong.

His engine situation is not though.

 

[FreeStream]

Webbers fault but without knowing if he was breaking as hard as he could I cant say if he should get the blame or not.

I didn't see the tyres locking so im saying 55-45 webbers fault.

Second time in a row hammy hasn't finished which is highly irritating for me

Like that video tho.

 

[NathanE]

Webbers fault but without knowing if he was breaking as hard as he could I cant say if he should get the blame or not.

I didn't see the tyres locking so im saying 55-45 webbers fault.

Second time in a row hammy hasn't finished which is highly irritating for me

Like that video tho.

I'm 100% certain he wasn't braking as hard as a normal lap because he was on the dirty side of the track where drivers know they can't brake as hard. If they try to they will just lock the wheels, as you pointed out

 

[sunama]

His [Alonso's] engine situation is not though.

I'm not so sure. If Ferrari decide they can opt for a new engine and take a 10 place drop. This will compromise Alonso's race, however, he can still get a hatful of points. He could even take a very early pit-stop and then run with the harder tyre for the remainder of the race. This will allow him to maintain his own lap times, with less hindrance from slower cars. Effectively, the overtaking will happen in the pits.

A 10 place grid drop isn't "that" bad...and that's 'if' he even needs an extra engine.

 

[Cavallino]

I'm not so sure. If Ferrari decide they can opt for a new engine and take a 10 place drop. This will compromise Alonso's race, however, he can still get a hatful of points. He could even take a very early pit-stop and then run with the harder tyre for the remainder of the race. This will allow him to maintain his own lap times, with less hindrance from slower cars. Effectively, the overtaking will happen in the pits.

A 10 place grid drop isn't "that" bad...and that's 'if' he even needs an extra engine.

Indeed. And because he was running in relatively clean air today, especially since they've been driving for 2 hours straight, that would have done Alonsos engine some favours compared to driving behind someones hut exhaust (such as Vettel).

 

[p0ss3s3d]

Robert/Adrian, Lewis/Mark.

Entry: Wider for KB/SUT. Wider corner angle. Ham/Web is the same as driving at monaco. Inevitably the cars have to run wider on the exit.

Mid: Both passing cars in same positions. mark is closer at the end of the braking zone At the start he was in sutils position He could've braked a tad earlier, but then he's given up the position. But crucially sutils wider line lets him STAY closer to the apex without running wider and give kubica the room to take the outside.

Exit: SUT/KUB make a clean exit due to the entry and space given at the start of the corner.

Mark should've yielded when they got to the braking zone.

 

[Cavallino]

You missed out a crucial shot of Sutil/Kubica...

 

[Cavallino]

Ignore.