Singapore Grand Prix 2010, Marina Bay Street Circuit - Race 15/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Soldato
No he hasn't... but he's the only one under the thumb with nothing to lose that could get near those front runners, assuming both the mclaren and red bull drivers are still in it with Alonso. Team orders "your brakes have failed Felipe, your brakes have failed" ... "I'm sorry".
I've never, to this day, seen any incidences of a driver assisting his team-mate in such a way, so as to "take out" another competitor.
If Massa were to "take out Alonso's main competitor", this would be unprecedented.
Its funny when people talk about Massa acting as Alonso's rear-gunner. Again, to my mind, in recent times, I've only ever seen this happen once (and I've seen loads of F1 races) and this was when MSc* was actively helping Irvine pull out a gap on his rivals. I believe this was in 1999. MSc assisted Irivine in 1 race. Other than this, in the last 2 decades, I don't recall a driver assisting his team-mate to such an extent.
*After watching that race, I thought to myself, that not only is MSc the best No.1 driver...he is also the best No.2 driver.
If Massa were to "take out Alonso's main competitor", this would be unprecedented.
Its funny when people talk about Massa acting as Alonso's rear-gunner. Again, to my mind, in recent times, I've only ever seen this happen once (and I've seen loads of F1 races) and this was when MSc* was actively helping Irvine pull out a gap on his rivals. I believe this was in 1999. MSc assisted Irivine in 1 race. Other than this, in the last 2 decades, I don't recall a driver assisting his team-mate to such an extent.
*After watching that race, I thought to myself, that not only is MSc the best No.1 driver...he is also the best No.2 driver.
Soldato
Irvine did it many times for Schumacher. Too many times to count he would slow the pack while MS scampered off. If Frentzen hadn't helped JV at Jerez,Jv wouldn't have had the chance to get a run at MS.
I imagine of Alonso is on pole for the last race and Massa can be in a postion to slow the pace by 1 second per lap behind him, massa will be instructed to do it in advance without any direct radio order.
Soldato
I do not recall Irvine slowing anybody down, on purpose, in order to allow his team-mate to pull away.
I also do not recall at any time, Frentzen holding anybody up, in order to allow JV to catch/attack MSc.
Can you give specific incidences (ie. races and the year)?
I recall MSc helping Irvine (blatantly), in Malysian GP 1999. He was obviously faster, but was backing up the pack on purpose, after he got pole position. This allowed Irvine to pull away at a rate of knots.
This is the only time I have ever witnessed, in F1, a No.2 driver fulfill his duties as a "rear gunner".
I don't follow BTCC. But when this happened, did the governing body investigate the incident and dish out any punishments?
Soldato
Soldato
Gotta love the old BTCC
As if the racing wasn't good enough the guy running the BMW team was using it as cover for importing massive amounts of cocaine. They did a lot of testing at Zandvoort apparently.
Soldato
Agreed, that was the race where Schumacher took pole by nearly a second on his return but obviously helped Irvine for his title chances.
Re the BTCC one - that kind of driving reminds me entirely of one man: Frank Sytner
As if the racing wasn't good enough the guy running the BMW team was using it as cover for importing massive amounts of cocaine. They did a lot of testing at Zandvoort apparently.
The method he used was ingenious.
Truck looked absolutely normal, until you measured the interior and exterior and noticed that there was around 3" missing in the height, and the edge of the room was hinged and was filled with lots of metal trays...
I believe the welding gas bottles were also used as storage spaces.
Customs and Excise used the truck as a transport for showing other items that have been confiscated. Last saw it 4 years ago iirc.
Irvine said himself in the f1 forum his role was so subtle he was letting MS past and playing his role, he knew he wasn't allowed to race him. Jeez there are so many races Irvine let MS go and then back off. One at spain sticks in my mind because afterwards Irvine said he wished he has a stereo in the car. His job was not to race Ms, it was to protect his back.
Frentzen held MS up at Jerez, without it Jv would not have got a run at MS after the pitstops. Jerez was a race of shennanigans tbh. The Saubers instructed by Ferrari to hold up Villeneuve and the Williams Mclaren race collusion that should have had them both thrown out.
Associate
You guys have short memories. What about Vettel backing up the pack under the safety car to allow Webber to build up a lead in Hungary? (and getting penalised for it 
)
True, it's not exactly the same as MS/Irvine, but it's very similar.
)True, it's not exactly the same as MS/Irvine, but it's very similar.
You guys have short memories. What about Vettel backing up the pack under the safety car to allow Webber to build up a lead in Hungary? (and getting penalised for it
At the time, some people thought (myself included), that Vettel was indeed doing this to help Webber. Later on, we found out that Vettel had not done this on purpose, but had brain-fade. I believe him when he said this because Vettel just isn't the sort of driver to help his team-mate win a race.
In summary, Vettel did not assist Webber on purpose.
What he said on the forum was that he knew what his role was. And he would never stand in MSc's way. He didnt however, at any stage, say that he drove slow on purpose (to slow other cars down)
Which year was this?
Was Frentzen going slow on purpose, or was he going as fast as he could, but was defending his position? There is a big difference between the 2 actions.
When MSc protected Irvine, he drove slowly on purpose, despite being obviously, the fastest car on the track by far. MSc got pole in that race. Irvine then got in front of MSc and MSc fell back at an alarming rate and then held up the rest of the field. After the pitstops, MSc, who was so fast, drove a stonking race and cruised up behind Irvine to follow him home...finishing about 2s behind Irvine. This is what I mean, when I say rear gunner, ie. to go slow on purpose AND on purpose, backing up the rest of the field.
I've seen many cars backing up the field behind them, but very rarely on purpose. They have backed the field up because they are driving as fast as they can, but they lack the car/skills to go any faster.
In Malaysia 1999, MSc could go between 1-2s/lap faster than he actually did, but purposely drove slow. He made this VERY obvious.
Soldato
TBH i doubt anyone would even need to say anything to Massa.