Poll: Singapore Grand Prix 2017, Singapore - Race 14/20
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Soldato
Unlikely. He's Teflon™ coated, plus Todt is head of Ferrari International Assistance.
Caporegime
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Not even close to that, Verstappen was alongside Vettel and had a better start and was pulling further alongside when Vettel turned significantly towards him. Verstappen specifically said he tried to back out of it because Vettel came across at him. If Verstappen hadn't slowed to attempt to avoid him the same thing would have happened just with the contact with Verstappen a little further forward. If Verstappen had managed to back off enough to avoid Vettel kamikaze-ing him, Vettel may have hit Kimi anyway as he was moving across so aggressively and fast and clearly had no idea Kimi was there.
Caporegime
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That is ridiculous, he had no chance in the championship so the ONLY thing he's racing for is a win AND he backed out when Vettel swung at him. Vettel was going for a championship and 3rd would have gotten him the lead let alone 2nd or 1st later(because Kimi would give up a position). Vettel was the one who had to take T1 safely, not Max, 3rd meant nothing for max. It was Vettel who 'needs to mature' in the way you put it by your own logic. Vettel was the only one who had something major to lose, not Max.
It's also not at all fair to say Vettel was ahead of Verstappen, Verstappen had a better start and was gaining ground on Vettel and was absolutely alongside when Vettel started to swing over, Max tried to back out seeing Vettel come at him but you can't just slam the brakes on in that situation. He was literally only just behind Vettel at the point of impact because he backed out.
AS for 3 into 1 in corners, it works all the time when people drive sensibly, when they drive unsafely 2 into 1 won't work either. It's an extremely clear 100% Vettel fault crash, racing incident, lol.
Soldato
Seb squeezed Max towards Kimi, thinking that Max would lift since his nose was behind both Ferrari's. But, Max being Max, kept it pinned and ended up being squeezed into Kimi by Seb, putting the three of them out. Very short sighted move, handing the championship (IMO) to Hamilton.
Soldato
Watch the hamilton onboard. Vettel tail has about a yard clearance in front of Vertsappen, so they were not alongside, Verdtappen was alongside Kimi with about halfcar length behind Kimi
As for you stating Max lifted is just speculation on your part, we cant possibly determine that, unless you have acces to pedal camera angle?. The stewards will know once they look at the data
I bet Max was focused on Vttel and didnt see Kimi had an even bettr start, why he turned his steering wheel into Kimi. There is no sense trying to turn to avoid a collision with Seb only to cause another collision with Kimi
Again i think its a racing incident, with no intentional mischief, just a confluence of poor conditions and bad decisions from Whiting and the drivers. Unfortunately for all of us who dont subscribe to demolition derby, it may have already decided the championship
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Man of Honour
Not sure what Max could have done differently. Good video showing both Kimi and Max's perspectives.
https://streamable.com/nmrn6
Max's front is interlocked with Kimi's rear, so he can't slow. He can't keep the power down because of Vettel's aggressive block. Can't slow, can't keep the gas on. He couldn't do anything different. Pure passenger.
https://streamable.com/nmrn6
Max's front is interlocked with Kimi's rear, so he can't slow. He can't keep the power down because of Vettel's aggressive block. Can't slow, can't keep the gas on. He couldn't do anything different. Pure passenger.
Caporegime
True, but he was already moving left as Kimi passed him and had to do so in order to avoid Vettel. Kimi should have realised that Max was being squeezed on both sides and left him room.
I'd call it a racing incident. But it was unwise of Vettel to make such an aggressive move in poor conidtions on a very narrow track; and he paid the price for it
Caporegime
1. I disagree. Much better to start properly and make a race of it. Unfortunate that an accident occured and foolish of Seb to be so aggressive in poor conditions when he was the one with most to lose.
2. Yes, these moves are common. I hope they'll consider doing something about it after this, we've seen incidents lower down the grid resulting from this before and it's been an accident waiting to happen for a while. Especially with this track and these race conditions they should have been more cautious, and probably instructed the drivers so in the briefing beforehand.
3. True, but as the incident developed Max was level with both.
4. Surely this is the otherway round, Vettel was the one with the most to lose and so should have been the most cautious?
Caporegime
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He paid the price, but so did Kimi, Max and Alonso. Generally there are no penalties when someone takes themselves out and no one else, take out 3 other cars by swerving aggressively into a car for no reason.... well I'm thinking Grosjean '12. Don't forget how much worse that crash could be, spray, colder conditions for brakes. It's a miracle that 10 other cars didn't pile in and also extremely lucky cars didn't come off the ground and the hits were so 'tame' compared to Grosjean where cars flew over the top of others.
Caporegime
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https://streamable.com/oanyl
https://imgur.com/a/UY42N
This is the point where Vettel starts his aggressive turn left, he's half a car length ahead of Kimi and well alongside Vettel, I'd say that is front wing at least half way up Vettel's car and that entitles him to space and Kimi's position entitles him to space as well. Vettel ends up further to the left(right on the image) than where Verstappen is before Vettel swerves at him.
Verstappen is only further back at the point of contact because he saw a car swerve at him and backed off. Again remember, he had a better start, he was pulling alongside and faster meaning he would have continued to gain ground on Vettel, not move behind him, he moved back because he backed off and Vettel still came at him. Considering Vettel didn't know Kimi was there even if Verstappen backed out enough Vettel may have hit Kimi. But when Vettel swerved into him he had absolutely no right at all to push Verstappen left at all, Verstappen had every right to not move and Vettel was going to absolutely cause a collision.
EDIT:- I was looking at the video more and a just after the picture, he's actually probably fully ahead of Kimi at that point but before Vettel made it across there Kimi was at least half a car length alongside him. This is entirely and literally unquestionably Vettel's fault. Just look at where Verstappen is line wise before Vettel turns and then where Vettel is when he gets hit, absolutely ridiculous.
https://imgur.com/a/UY42N
This is the point where Vettel starts his aggressive turn left, he's half a car length ahead of Kimi and well alongside Vettel, I'd say that is front wing at least half way up Vettel's car and that entitles him to space and Kimi's position entitles him to space as well. Vettel ends up further to the left(right on the image) than where Verstappen is before Vettel swerves at him.
Verstappen is only further back at the point of contact because he saw a car swerve at him and backed off. Again remember, he had a better start, he was pulling alongside and faster meaning he would have continued to gain ground on Vettel, not move behind him, he moved back because he backed off and Vettel still came at him. Considering Vettel didn't know Kimi was there even if Verstappen backed out enough Vettel may have hit Kimi. But when Vettel swerved into him he had absolutely no right at all to push Verstappen left at all, Verstappen had every right to not move and Vettel was going to absolutely cause a collision.
EDIT:- I was looking at the video more and a just after the picture, he's actually probably fully ahead of Kimi at that point but before Vettel made it across there Kimi was at least half a car length alongside him. This is entirely and literally unquestionably Vettel's fault. Just look at where Verstappen is line wise before Vettel turns and then where Vettel is when he gets hit, absolutely ridiculous.
Don
Max is turning right into Kimi long before Vettel gets anywhere near him to be honest. Just looks to me that Max panicked at the sight of Vettel coming across, if he had held his line Vettel wasn't going to ram him (maybe).
Caporegime
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If Max didn't move he actually clearly was, just look at where his line ended up. He was trying to push Verstappen into the place Kimi was so the first turn is too tight to take it well, his assumption is Kimi isn't there and Verstappen will move to the white line, that was Vettel's intention from the second he swerved across and it was absolutely 100% from the second he made that decision going to cause a collision because he assumed Verstappen had space to move into but he didn't.
Ferrari are now distancing themselves from the tweet blaming Verstappen, Kimi was very obviously PR style avoiding blaming Seb by refusing to blame anyone and now no one at Ferrari is blaming Verstappen.... so who do you think Ferrari believe are to blame?
RIght now RBR need an engine and a friend, Verstappen might want a Ferrari drive, Ricciardo probably does so I can see a lack of a significant push for penalties because that is how F1 works, if teams are quiet about an incident FIA won't push it, certainly against the likes of Ferrari. Mclaren might complain to the FIA. If there is an investigation(there should be) I'd expect the same radio silence from Ferrari then a totally and absolutely sincere apology from Vettel right after the investigation fails to punish him that we got after Baku.
Soldato
Doesn't really matter who's fault it was Vettell was not very smart
Don
But that's the thing, look at the video again, there's a good cars width between Vettel and Max when Max starts heading right where the gap between him and Kimi is already next to nothing. Vettel just keeps coming because Max is giving him the space to do that - at which point Max hits Kimi, who spins into the side of Vettel.
Soldato
how anybody can defend Vettell i dont not know