Soldato
That'll go down well!
Andi.
Poll: Singapore Grand Prix 2017, Singapore - Race 14/20
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Andi.
Associate
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Bad troll is bad.
Man of Honour
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Haha, don't give Charlie ideas!
Vettel didn't do anything wrong as such - he was just warding off Verstappen following a relatively poor start, which we see all the time. It only became an issue as, unbeknown to Vettel, Raikkonen had made a stunning start and they were pinching Verstappen. Take any of the 3 out of the equation and there would be no problem. There's no way any of them were getting penalised for that.
Perhaps they need a NASCAR spotter for the starts - "3 wide, you're on the top!".
This is somewhat true, but Vettel's move was foolhardy given the conditions. In a dry race with good visibility he might have seen Kimi's good start in his mirrors or at least clocked Kimi briefly. No doubt Vettel could see very little of what was going on behind him because of the spray so the lunge across the track was a silly thing to do.
Don
Max's issue was that he was quite content to slip in behind Vettel as Vettel came over to defend his position, not paying attention to Kimi coming up his left. It's just poor observation.
Soldato
Oh ffs, really? I didn't realise C4 were stopping it. Looks like I'll not be watching the F1 at all next season unless Sky make it possible to watch just the F1 online, I've got zero interest in paying for a full Sky subscription.
Man of Honour
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He couldn't really jump out the way could he. He is screwed whichever direction he moves in. Combine that with the speed and conditions and it was always going to happen. Vettel wasn't thinking of the chdmpionship at all.
Caporegime
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I keep seeing this like it's an excusable situation. Not knowing another car is there is not any kind of excuse or reasoning. If you have a poor start you can expect more than 1 car to be getting alongside you. More than that Vettel and Kimi have gotten into two direct collisions that have caused both damage TWICE in the first corner when both Vettel and Kimi in the different incidents decided to assume there was no car on the inside of the other driver and turned into them. Despite causing problems in the first corner due to this assumption multiple times in the past couple of years they still do it.
Unless you know there isn't a car there, assume there is a car there, anything else is dangerous driving. If you get a phenomenal start, well he'd be clear of max anyway and there would be no chance of someone on the blind side of Max(also the only blind side would be behind Max from that view anyway). If you got away so slowly that Max is half way alongside you then the blind area is the other side of max and there is every chance someone got alongside Max too. He says he had an average start but he didn't he had a poor start, Max had a fairly decent start and Kimi had a phenomenal start or three abreast wouldn't have happened.
The idea that you can just drive over into someone and if you cause a collision the idea that you didn't know there was a car on the other side of the car you drove into isn't even close to a reasonable explanation.
Also worth noting is how little Max moved left yet Kimi didn't react, he had over half a car width spare to his left and didn't react despite having both the room and plenty of time.
None of them can see what is behind them because of the ridiculous spray they would have had. Therefore Vettel's lunge across the track was the catalyst for the whole thing. Vettel should not have done that when he could not see clearly what was coming up on his left (ie, he clearly did not clock Kimi). Seriously look at the closing speeds of Kimi and Vettel - even if Max wasn't there, Vettel and Kimi would have collided (or at least one of them would have had to take major evasive action)!
Verstappen had to "slip in behind Vettel" because Vettel gave him no other option if he wanted to avoid a collision, fact is if Vettel had stayed on the 60%+ of the track he had to play with and hadn't used his car as a weapon Verstappen would have had the inside line at the first corner. Forcing the faster following car into a position of either slowing down or running into the back/side of you is not racing it's Russian roullette. It's a drivers natural reaction to try to avoid a collision so threatening to ram them if they don't yield is bully boy tactics and frankly dangerous. The only reason there wasa collision yesterday is that Verstappen had no option to avoid the collision, it was either be rammed by Vettel or turn into Kimi - in the end he lifted off but he had pushed so close to Kimi that wheels tangled.
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Next year is the last free to air year and C4 contract ends at the end of 2018.
Soldato
Thankfully the new F1 ownership are aware of the problem that paywalls have contributed significantly to the dwindling audience across markets. Hopefully they will be able to negotiate a happy compromise between pay and free to air TV, even if its not C4, it could be with BBC or ITV, as they did in France recently https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...-lesson-for-sky-after-french-move-953024/?s=1
Soldato
It's as if the Ferraris had a plan to bully Max, but it all went pear-shaped when Vettel had the worse start of the top three.
If Vettel had had a decent start, he could have swiped across the track like he did, but he would have been a full car ahead of Max.
But Vettel had a bad start and still tried to carry out the plan and it backfired in his face.
He's very fortunate to have Ferrari International Assistance, because I feel virtually any other driver from another team would have been slapped with a grid penalty for the next race.
If Vettel had had a decent start, he could have swiped across the track like he did, but he would have been a full car ahead of Max.
But Vettel had a bad start and still tried to carry out the plan and it backfired in his face.
He's very fortunate to have Ferrari International Assistance, because I feel virtually any other driver from another team would have been slapped with a grid penalty for the next race.
Don
Indeed, he has form of getting away with this sort of stuff. Look at the whole safety car ramming incident on Hamilton.
I get the feeling that Vettel just thinks he can get away with anything now he is at Ferrari and especially as he is (was!) in the hunt for the championship.
There was a point in the race where Brundle gave Magnussen praise for his awareness in giving another driver he was overtaking room, if that's what you call it there is not enough 'awareness' in F1 nowadays but I always thought it was just simple racing etiquette - well that and the fact that F1 used to be so dangerous that such moves could kill drivers.
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Don
Why does he need to jump out of the way? Vettel takes at least 3s to come across the track from his start line, that's almost pedestrian! If Max was aware of Kimi's position (and he's alongside even to the point that he's beyond him by the time contact is made so the "couldn't see him due to spray" doesn't wash) he wouldn't have ended up making a panicked maneuver that put him into Kimi side. It's a schoolboy error to cause a collision, when you might have otherwise have been in a collision, assuming Vettel just blindly and out of control drove into Max if Max hadn't drifted left.
Were we watching different races? Vettel was miles away from Kimi when Max spun him round, Kimi has almost gone a full 90degree turn before he hits Vettel.
Quite clearly.
Soldato
Verstappen was caught in the middle. Nowhere to go!
Soldato
Hamilton calls it a racing incident https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-vettel-verstappen-singapore-crash-954889/?s=1
Associate
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The on-board from kimi shows him being slightly right hand down on the steering wheel so he was moving towards max also. Vettel was nearly fully ahead of max. To me it looks like Kimi's fault ultimately but both Ferraris should have given more room