SNP to break up Britian?

[Biohazard]

U

The claims referencing the entire value of north sea oil and gas.

Are you one of the people I mentioned who talk about it without knowing where it is?

I've not seen much of that, and no is the answer to the second question.

Or believe. It's a slogan. It's not reality.

If it's not reflective of reality, why further the myth by repeating it?

REunification.

What makes you think it's somewhat unlikely?

It's a bit of an old and vacuous claim given they were ceded.

What makes you think it's any more unlikely than independence for Scotland?

Many things, partly the above, partly a lack of political will.

Would you agree with the islands having "full fiscal autonomy" and for decisions that affects the islands to be taken there, by their own government? If not, why not? After all, it's not hard to grasp, is it?

If they wanted, however it has not grown any "legs" politically.

 

[Dolph]

Not really an intelligent argument that.

well, it can be, but Biohazard won't take it to the logical conclusion of no representation without net taxation as it would decimate the base of the political parties he favours.

 

[Danthus]

Has Alex Salmond agreed to a straight yes or no vote?

 

[Biohazard]

Very romantic. In reality your personal level of freedom will remain unchanged - it'll just be a different set of politicians in charge. You won't be in charge of your country any more than you are now.

And Scotland isn't a subordinate of England. Do you forget a Scot has held the highest elected position in the UK for the majority of the last two decades?

Why do you keep mixing the concepts of state with examples of individual nationality?

We will be more in charge, local decisions tend to be more accountable. Simply, in principle.

 

[Biohazard]

No of course they don't, and taking it as some kind of sweeping statement is ridiculous.

There's a vast quantity of scots that think its stupid, but there are some that support the idea, otherwise it wouldn't have the motion to have become this well publicised.

kd

Don't type a sweeping statement then, would surely be the solution to that one?




You can't blame me for missing your intent, in context.

 

[campbell]

Saor Alba

Lmao!!!

 

[Biohazard]

Not really an intelligent argument that.

Explain why.

 

[Biohazard]

well, it can be, but Biohazard won't take it to the logical conclusion of no representation without net taxation as it would decimate the base of the political parties he favours.

I'm not touching that with a bargepole, you'll be disenfranchising left right and centre which is not the aim of the movement.

It was one component of the argument, and I support all parties who do not want the double standard to continue.

 

[Biohazard]

Has Alex Salmond agreed to a straight yes or no vote?

We'll find out in a couple of weeks, but it's the most likely outcome.

 

[Tephnos]

All you'll choose is who you vote for - like now. Why is it the pro-independance people think the future would be some sort of utopia where they get to 'choose'? Really? You'll vote for a government who will choose what happens on your behalf - not you. You'll still be located in the same place in the world on the same landmass connected to the same England you hate speaking the same language driving on the same side of the road with the same weather shopping at the same shops etc etc...

Just like the English population doesn't choose its own path in the world now!

It seems all very romantic and appealing whilst you continue to believe that somehow independance means individual Scots being able to decide how the country works doesn't it...

But what if I want a government that isn't Labour or Conservative? We have the SNP right now, yes, but they don't have full control. What if I want another party? Why should I be locked to the westminster 'two party' system? Seceding from the UK would give us more options in terms of parties, as our votes are not ultimately influenced by the much larger English population. I'd rather 5 million people vote for their own party. We count to the overall elections, yes, but still.

 

[[TW]Fox]

We

No, the people you elect. Not you. Can we please stop implying that individual Scottish people would be able to choose how things worked becuase you know its about as true as saying I have any sort of control over the direction of England..

 

[Biohazard]

The sooner Scotland becomes independent the better. It's about time we chose our own path in the world.

Could not agree more, Saor Alba.

Vive la republica. Saor Alba.

There is a march for independence this Saturday in Edinburgh.

The more the merrier.

http://www.independenceforscotland.com/home.html

 

[Biohazard]

No, the people you elect. Not you. Can we please stop implying that individual Scottish people would be able to choose how things worked becuase you know its about as true as saying I have any sort of control over the direction of England..

That wasn't the intention, I would have thought it obvious it was through the mechanism of political representation.

If not, I apologise. Clearly all 5 million Scots are not going to walk through the revolving doors of Holyrood and Bute House everyday.

The shorter the distance of political control the more accountable the politik becomes. In comparison to the discussion about the UK's arrangement for Scotland it would be of benefit.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Whats the point in a March? You are getting a referendum - the power to decide for yourself - so why do you need to go on a March as if your desire is being oppressed or something

 

[[TW]Fox]

That wasn't the intention, I would have thought it obvious it was through the mechanism of political representation.

If not, I apologise. Clearly all 5 million Scots are not going to walk in the revolving doors of Holyrood and Bute House everyday.

I genuinelly wonder how many people seem to think they will have some sort of power they don't currently have. Especially the guy earlier who seemed to think that everything wrong with politics in the UK wouldn't exist in an independant Scotland.

 

[Biohazard]

Whats the point in a March? You are getting a referendum - the power to decide for yourself - so why do you need to go on a March as if your desire is being oppressed or something

Why do people march about anything?

War? Anti-Cuts? Against Facism? Capitalism? Various guises of nationalism?

Most probably to raise awareness and make a statement.

I don't think it's going to be a congregation of people looking for oppression, but some people looking inwards, outwards and forwards at something you don't quite appreciate it would seem.

Why do I plan on going personally? To listen specifically to some of the guest speakers, and to add a person to the croud too essentially.

 

[Biohazard]

I genuinelly wonder how many people seem to think they will have some sort of power they don't currently have. Especially the guy earlier who seemed to think that everything wrong with politics in the UK wouldn't exist in an independant Scotland.

I honestly couldn't say, although I would argue that it would make our vote more valuable in a certain sense in that it can have a greater, less diluted, say on their thoughts or options (politically).

There is a great deal wrong with Scottish politics now, both in terms of Scotland and the United Kingdom. What we would have is a more responsible and accountable parliament, with a stonger sense of democracy in my opinion.

I can't say what the politics in an Independent Scotland would look like, but in terms of comparing Establishments I think there is evidently a differernce in manifestation, habit and ethos.

 

[Dolph]

Why do people march about anything?

War? Anti-Cuts? Against Facism? Capitalism? Various guises of nationalism?

Most probably to raise awareness and make a statement.

I don't think it's going to be a congregation of people of people looking for oppression, but some people looking inwards, outwards and forwards at something you don't quite appreciate it would seem.

Why do I plan on going personally? To listen specifically to some of the guest speakers, and to add a person to the croud too essentially.

In most cases, people march because they don't respect the democratic process so set out to disrupt and blackmail instead. That is certainly the case in the examples you posted.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why do people march about anything?

Because they want to effect change or gain something - but in this case the job is done. They've got the referendum. It has been granted. All they need to do now is wait and vote.

The only benefit of marching is to convince others to agree with them which isnt neccesary because independance is already what Scotland wants, right?

 

[Biohazard]

In most cases, people march because they don't respect the democratic process so set out to disrupt and blackmail instead. That is certainly the case in the examples you posted.

Or voice opinion Dolph.

Half full, half empty.

In my examples, can you describe the Democratic nature of the Iraq War, and how hundreds of thousands of people were out to disrupt and blackmail?

Can you describe how United Against Fascism is out to usurp Democracy by using their right to march and campaign against something they disagree with?

There are no doubt many you can genuinely look at and frown upon like versions of Nationalism from the Far Right, yet I don't think the general right to protest or campaign peacefully is quite as dangerous or insidious as you think.