SNP to break up Britian?

[Muffin`]

I think this independence debate has actually created an even greater debate. Is the rest of the UK being neglected in favour of London?

I don't see how that isn't applicable to many scenarios, just look at the EuroZone and the power Germany has over the PIIGS. It goes to show how ineffective the EU's every country is equal and more like some are more equal than others. To think Scotland will escape 'London Rule' and exchange it for German Rule is baffling, Scotland has more of a say as it is than it would as independant state, I guess that's why Devo-Max is preferred.

 

[nst68]

if Scotland do break away can we call it England instead of Great Britain. I also think we should create a realy big wall to keep them out.

That's a good idea, I'm surprised no one's built one before

 

[nst68]

Like all elections, the SNP just need a majority of the people who vote to say yes.
We could end up with a situation where Scotland goes independent with 30% of the population voting for it.

(or is there a rule that a certain % of the population must have voted for the result to stand?)

 

[ubersonic]

Like all elections, the SNP just need a majority of the people who vote to say yes.
We could end up with a situation where Scotland goes independent with 30% of the population voting for it.

(or is there a rule that a certain % of the population must have voted for the result to stand?)

IIRC that's what happened in the 70's when Scotland voted on devolution, the vote came back yes but as <40% of the population voted yes it was invalidated.

 

[ubersonic]

Double post >.<

 

[grumpysculler]

That referendum had a specific requirement (Labour backbench amendment IIRC) that mandated a simple majority and at least 40% of those eligible to vote in favour.

I would like to see a similar requirement in this referendum, but I doubt it will make it in. I suspect that tha majority of scots will want to maintain the union, but that turnout will be higher among the "Yes" camp than the "no" camp.

In 1974, the result was 51% in favour, but turnout was only 60% or so.

 

[ubersonic]

I suspect that tha majority of scots will want to maintain the union, but that turnout will be higher among the "Yes" camp than the "no" camp.

The turnout is a forgone conclusion, historically speaking you always get more people willing to vote/speak up for change than vote/speak up for the status quo. The hunting ban was an excellent example of this where the un-silent minority managed to enforce their will.

 

[Raumarik]

The few Scots I've spoken to don't really buy into the "if you're proud to be Scottish you must want to be independent" thing anymore than your average Yorkshireman would seriously want an independent Yorkshire (cue calls for an independent Yorkshire ).

The general feeling I've heard has been once you get past the faux nationalistic pride thing draping yourself in the flag and rebelling against the oppression of rule by the English, which is always good for some banter, very few of the Scots I know see much difference between self serving politicians and civil servants in London or Edinburgh. Apart from the ego of politicians and nationalists they don't see the point, "I'm Scottish now and would be Scottish post independence *shrug* I can't see anything really changing". Most favour the status quo as a good mix of stability the UK brings along with enough devolution to allow things like free university places etc.

Granted my sample of half a dozen friends and colleagues is probably not statistically representative

Pretty much nail on the head for how I feel about the whole thing and from the chats I've had with family they're all of a similar mind.

I like the romantic notion of an independent Scotland, I've no doubt that we could financially make it on our own but personally I like being part of the UK and actually like the English, Welsh and Irish. Perhaps that's a bit of a surprise coming from a Scot, but honestly can't think of 3 other nations on the planet who would be more awesome to team up with.

A group of islands (yes I include all of the small ones, Orkney, Shetland and that chunk of Ireland in there) which in the past couple of hundred years has helped shape and reshape many countries around the world, generally speaking for the better.

So why go for independence? I don't see any gigantic benefit to myself future generations of Scots. Life isn't about money, so there's little point banging on about North Sea oil and gas when the money from it goes only to the super rich and their companies.

I'd much rather be voting for the UK parliament to be moved to the northern half of England so those of us outside the M25 can actually get a shot of it, then we can scrap the Scottish/Welsh "governments" and get back to some sense of sanity.

 

[StriderX]

That referendum had a specific requirement (Labour backbench amendment IIRC) that mandated a simple majority and at least 40% of those eligible to vote in favour.

I would like to see a similar requirement in this referendum, but I doubt it will make it in. I suspect that tha majority of scots will want to maintain the union, but that turnout will be higher among the "Yes" camp than the "no" camp.

In 1974, the result was 51% in favour, but turnout was only 60% or so.

Swings and roundabouts really.

You make your voters stop caring about your pointless process, when it really matters, well tough...deal with it.

 

[manic111]

I assume that this would mean that Scotland would automatically drop out of the EU, and would have to queue to rejoin if it wanted to?

 

[StriderX]

I assume that this would mean that Scotland would automatically drop out of the EU, and would have to queue to rejoin if it wanted to?

Technically it should, but its been so vague...I can not personally say.

 

[Macro]

I assume that this would mean that Scotland would automatically drop out of the EU, and would have to queue to rejoin if it wanted to?

That seems to be the consensus although there is talk that Scotland could be fast tracked back in. The debateable point at the moment is if that would carry a commitment for Scotland to join the Euro zone and adopt the Euro rather than the Scottish pound.

 

[Macro]

I like the romantic notion of an independent Scotland, I've no doubt that we could financially make it on our own but personally I like being part of the UK and actually like the English, Welsh and Irish. Perhaps that's a bit of a surprise coming from a Scot, but honestly can't think of 3 other nations on the planet who would be more awesome to team up with..

I herby award you the "most reasonable, sensible, post of the thread" award

 

[Biohazard]

So are depositors at risk with Independent Scottish banks

Not anymore than they are now.

 

[Biohazard]

Not in this parliament - the winner of the next general election is not decided. Scotland would, as part of the UK, be as entitled to vote for somebody else as the rest of us would.

The wording of the question was;

"But when asked "how would you be likely to vote in next year's Scottish independence referendum if the UK was looking likely to vote to withdraw from the EU?", 44% said they would be likely to vote yes, matched by 44% likely to vote no, while 12% said they did not know."

I thought independance was about more than just not liking the current administration, Biohazard?

EU membership clearly matters to a lot of people either side of the debate. Disagreeing with a policy stance is not the same as "not liking the current administration" as much as you try to conflate, and emote, matters.

Will there be an independance claim for the Highlands if they decide one day they don't like the SNP or something?

If they wish, but I'm sure we've been through this a few times.

 

[[TW]Fox]

EU membership clearly matters to a lot of people either side of the debate.

How is it relevent? EU membership is not something the current government can take us out of. What happens with a new government entirely depends on who gets voted in! This particular issue has no place in the independance debate, its irrelevent.

 

[Biohazard]

Only a State can afford to bail out a bank. It's no more a connection to the State than saying BMW are German and Honda are Japanese.

But the “arc of prosperity” that Alex championed with Ireland and Iceland appears to be no more after the recession, the UK was there to provide financial support to those countries however.

If Scottish depositors are at risk of losing money in a new Independant Scotland then they need to be asking questions to their elected representatives to ensure that either Scotland can cover the deposits or they stop the banks from fractional lending.

How much assistance did the other end of the 'arc' require?

 

[Biohazard]

The few Scots I've spoken to don't really buy into the "if you're proud to be Scottish you must want to be independent" thing anymore than your average Yorkshireman would seriously want an independent Yorkshire (cue calls for an independent Yorkshire ).

The general feeling I've heard has been once you get past the faux nationalistic pride thing draping yourself in the flag and rebelling against the oppression of rule by the English, which is always good for some banter, very few of the Scots I know see much difference between self serving politicians and civil servants in London or Edinburgh. Apart from the ego of politicians and nationalists they don't see the point, "I'm Scottish now and would be Scottish post independence *shrug* I can't see anything really changing". Most favour the status quo as a good mix of stability the UK brings along with enough devolution to allow things like free university places etc.

Granted my sample of half a dozen friends and colleagues is probably not statistically representative

I can understand that, so why oh why do Better Together - who recently decided they were Better Apart - go on and on about "True" and "Patriotic" Scots who support the Union?

 

[Biohazard]

I think this independence debate has actually created an even greater debate. Is the rest of the UK being neglected in favour of London?

Given that BJ wants London to have similar powers to Holyrood, who knows what sort of state the UK is in really.

I wonder if those so emotive on here would also consider London to be "sticking the fingers up to England"?

 

[Biohazard]

From the Scots I've spoken to this also rings true.

Better Together; The patriotic all-party* and no-party campaign for Scotland in the UK. "realscotstogether"

(*Until Labour apparently left)

For all the other buzz words see the videos.

Also, unless there's an overwhelming shift in support for independence between now and next year the debate will very soon switch to what shape devolution could take after 2015 (after the next general election). I think there's very few Scots who would want to leave the union until that debate has been had. The best chance for the SNP winning an Independence referendum has already past.

I think it's all well still to play for, it's to early to say yet. It's the few weeks before the referendum and entrance polls that will set the tone.