SNP to break up Britian?

[Stretch]

I wonder how many people share Biohazard's lunatic views on Scotland?

I guess we'll find out post-referendum. We should adjust the figures though, to take into account those people that have drunk a bit too much Buckfast.

It depends which poll you belive, but most say about 30% would vote yes to independance.

If you ask a bookie, they'd say there's very little chance of a yes vote this time round.

 

[grumpysculler]

You miss the point, I never said copy it. Merely emulate the process that many nations do undertake when codifying their nations constitution.

Having a written constitution is something worth aspiring to, it limits the power of Parliament of which we could certainly use in this country, in mind of Westminster and its godlike Parliamentary Sovereignty, and Governments that can simply rip up your rights.

I don't miss the point. The Second Amendment is a fine example of why something that limits the sovereignty of parliament is a bad thing.

Laws need to change with the times (at the time it was introduced, I'm sure the amendment seemed an excellent idea). Having a constitution that severely limits the ability of parliament to change the laws as society changes is not necessarily a good thing.

I cannot see 200 years into the future, but I'm pretty sure that 200 years ago nobody had conceived that people would own assault rifles in urban sprawl or walk into a school and massacre children. What are we to set in stone now that our descendents will live to regret?

 

[Biohazard]

As a constituent ruling nation of the Former British Empire I would agree, however accords and constitutional Criteria set out since then have made that part of history rather than anything we can imply in the modern commonwealth.

I think you would agree that Scotland would meet the requirements.

I was, if you look back, arguing against definitive statements being made authoritatively. I didn't say it was cast in stone, in fact I said the opposite so its not even my cake, let alone my flavour...it was yours and it was that authoritative stance I was disputing, not the process and negotiation required.

I can't argue that Scotland would not be welcomed into the commonwealth as I cannot see any justifiable reason why not.

Likewise, which is why it can reasonably be assumed as a formallity, not a challenge.

 

[Biohazard]

Indeed, no country can be forced to do anything, but like all obligations, if not met when agreed or when stipulated within the criteria then there are also consequences. Just like no country can be forced to adopt the Euro, the EU cannot be forced to adopt a new member.

What are the consequences of rejection?

 

[Biohazard]

Doesn't sound a great way for a newly independent Scotland to cover itself in international glory by joining the EU knowing it had accepted a commitment to monetary union and the Euro whilst openly planning never to fulfil that commitment.

I think times have changed since the original treaties, that's quite obvious in many ways, and I suspect that Scotland is not the pariah state that is often implied. Scotland's entrance, as an independence nation, would be a political matter not one of process - given this is a circumstance that hasn't happened before within the EU. It is likely that Scotland would, depending on the legal circumstances agreed in this event, either inherit membership or be fastracked.

 

[Biohazard]

I think exactly what the economy needs right now is to spend billions and billions on changing the sign above the door. After that, everyones life will be revolutionised.

Self determination is slightly more nuanced than that, Fox

Try to hold it together chap!

 

[sports_brah]

I don't miss the point. The Second Amendment is a fine example of why something that limits the sovereignty of parliament is a bad thing.

Laws need to change with the times (at the time it was introduced, I'm sure the amendment seemed an excellent idea). Having a constitution that severely limits the ability of parliament to change the laws as society changes is not necessarily a good thing.

I cannot see 200 years into the future, but I'm pretty sure that 200 years ago nobody had conceived that people would own assault rifles in urban sprawl or walk into a school and massacre children. What are we to set in stone now that our descendents will live to regret?

It can also be something of a protection as well.

 

[Biohazard]

I wonder how many people share Biohazard's lunatic views on Scotland?

I guess we'll find out post-referendum. We should adjust the figures though, to take into account those people that have drunk a bit too much Buckfast.

If you think they are lunacy you should see the oppositions proposals.. oh wait, yeah. It's just the daily doom and gloom.

It depends on the circumstances mostly, if it looks like the near meltdown Tories are going to yank the UK out of the EU then that threat would - at present - even the scores to a 1/3rd each way.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Michael Moore on BBC Scotland today was comedy gold. He was constantly banging on about the treasury view that savings in Scottish banks where at risk if Scotland achieved independence.

The reporter pointed out the McCrone Report, and the lies therein that where proffered by the treasury at the time. Moore was asked if there was a chance that the treasury where doing the same now and would he condemn their actions from 1974. Typically, he continued to bang his own drum while ignoring repeated requests from the reporter to answer the question.

 

[Muffin`]

So are depositors at risk with Independent Scottish banks

 

[[TW]Fox]

It depends on the circumstances mostly, if it looks like the near meltdown Tories are going to yank the UK out of the EU

Not in this parliament - the winner of the next general election is not decided. Scotland would, as part of the UK, be as entitled to vote for somebody else as the rest of us would.

I thought independance was about more than just not liking the current administration, Biohazard?

Will there be an independance claim for the Highlands if they decide one day they don't like the SNP or something?

 

[kitch9]

if Scotland do break away can we call it England instead of Great Britain. I also think we should create a realy big wall to keep them out.

We have 25 miles of water between us and the next country.

Doesn't stop anyone coming here who wants to get their free stuff normally.

Not in this parliament - the winner of the next general election is not decided. Scotland would, as part of the UK, be as entitled to vote for somebody else as the rest of us would.

I thought independance was about more than just not liking the current administration, Biohazard?

Will there be an independance claim for the Highlands if they decide one day they don't like the SNP or something?

Oil, lol.

 

[StriderX]

So are depositors at risk with Independent Scottish banks

I do wish someday this connection of banks and nation states would end, its unhealthy.

 

[D.P.]

I wonder how many people share Biohazard's lunatic views on Scotland?

I guess we'll find out post-referendum. We should adjust the figures though, to take into account those people that have drunk a bit too much Buckfast.

A fair few small-minded uneducated delinquents would like to put their middle finger up at England for no other reasons but relatively few of them are as delusional as Biohazard.

Even then a large majority are very much against Scottish independence.

 

[Gerard]

We have 25 miles of water between us and the next country.

Wales?

 

[Muffin`]

I do wish someday this connection of banks and nation states would end, its unhealthy.

Only a State can afford to bail out a bank. It's no more a connection to the State than saying BMW are German and Honda are Japanese.

But the “arc of prosperity” that Alex championed with Ireland and Iceland appears to be no more after the recession, the UK was there to provide financial support to those countries however.

If Scottish depositors are at risk of losing money in a new Independant Scotland then they need to be asking questions to their elected representatives to ensure that either Scotland can cover the deposits or they stop the banks from fractional lending.

 

[StriderX]

A fair few small-minded uneducated delinquents would like to put their middle finger up at England for no other reasons but relatively few of them are as delusional as Biohazard.

Even then a large majority are very much against Scottish independence.

That's rather loaded for an assumption.

I would personally say that a large majority are for the status quo, which does not necessarily mean they are against an independent nation.

 

[Macro]

The few Scots I've spoken to don't really buy into the "if you're proud to be Scottish you must want to be independent" thing anymore than your average Yorkshireman would seriously want an independent Yorkshire (cue calls for an independent Yorkshire ).

The general feeling I've heard has been once you get past the faux nationalistic pride thing draping yourself in the flag and rebelling against the oppression of rule by the English, which is always good for some banter, very few of the Scots I know see much difference between self serving politicians and civil servants in London or Edinburgh. Apart from the ego of politicians and nationalists they don't see the point, "I'm Scottish now and would be Scottish post independence *shrug* I can't see anything really changing". Most favour the status quo as a good mix of stability the UK brings along with enough devolution to allow things like free university places etc.

Granted my sample of half a dozen friends and colleagues is probably not statistically representative

 

[Brookert]

I think this independence debate has actually created an even greater debate. Is the rest of the UK being neglected in favour of London?

 

[Stretch]

The few Scots I've spoken to don't really buy into the "if you're proud to be Scottish you must want to be independent" thing anymore than your average Yorkshireman would seriously want an independent Yorkshire (cue calls for an independent Yorkshire ).

The general feeling I've heard has been once you get past the faux nationalistic pride thing draping yourself in the flag and rebelling against the oppression of rule by the English, which is always good for some banter, very few of the Scots I know see much difference between self serving politicians and civil servants in London or Edinburgh. Apart from the ego of politicians and nationalists they don't see the point, "I'm Scottish now and would be Scottish post independence *shrug* I can't see anything really changing". Most favour the status quo as a good mix of stability the UK brings along with enough devolution to allow things like free university places etc.

Granted my sample of half a dozen friends and colleagues is probably not statistically representative

From the Scots I've spoken to this also rings true.

Also, unless there's an overwhelming shift in support for independence between now and next year the debate will very soon switch to what shape devolution could take after 2015 (after the next general election). I think there's very few Scots who would want to leave the union until that debate has been had. The best chance for the SNP winning an Independence referendum has already past.