SNP to break up Britian?

Muffin` said:
I don't see how that isn't applicable to many scenarios, just look at the EuroZone and the power Germany has over the PIIGS. It goes to show how ineffective the EU's every country is equal and more like some are more equal than others. To think Scotland will escape 'London Rule' and exchange it for German Rule is baffling, Scotland has more of a say as it is than it would as independant state, I guess that's why Devo-Max is preferred.
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Do you consider us to have Germanic Rule at the present moment?
 
grumpysculler said:
That referendum had a specific requirement (Labour backbench amendment IIRC) that mandated a simple majority and at least 40% of those eligible to vote in favour.

I would like to see a similar requirement in this referendum, but I doubt it will make it in. I suspect that tha majority of scots will want to maintain the union, but that turnout will be higher among the "Yes" camp than the "no" camp.

In 1974, the result was 51% in favour, but turnout was only 60% or so.
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Tam Dalyell, Labour member for West Lothian (and the "Question"), was the anti-democratic perpetrator of the amendement in question there.

You can find him in this video, from 1997, trying to scare they hell out of Scots about devolution.


His out of touch efforts were in vain, as I suspect will happen with the current equivilents.

It's worth a watch, if only to see politicians try to fight the very same principles now, for Independence, as they once ascribed to and professed for Scottish Devolution.

Moral and intellecual bankruptcy particularly from the now "Lord Wallace". No wonder he just huffs and puffs in debate now, the Scottish electorate have pulled the rug from underneath him.
 
Halfmad said:
Pretty much nail on the head for how I feel about the whole thing and from the chats I've had with family they're all of a similar mind.

I like the romantic notion of an independent Scotland, I've no doubt that we could financially make it on our own but personally I like being part of the UK and actually like the English, Welsh and Irish. Perhaps that's a bit of a surprise coming from a Scot, but honestly can't think of 3 other nations on the planet who would be more awesome to team up with.

A group of islands (yes I include all of the small ones, Orkney, Shetland and that chunk of Ireland in there) which in the past couple of hundred years has helped shape and reshape many countries around the world, generally speaking for the better.

So why go for independence? I don't see any gigantic benefit to myself future generations of Scots. Life isn't about money, so there's little point banging on about North Sea oil and gas when the money from it goes only to the super rich and their companies.

I'd much rather be voting for the UK parliament to be moved to the northern half of England so those of us outside the M25 can actually get a shot of it, then we can scrap the Scottish/Welsh "governments" and get back to some sense of sanity.
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Tax reciepts over the last 30 years would testify other wise - co-incidental in a week where Denis Healey admits to lying to Scotland about the value of our resources - and money isn't everything but seeing Scotland mismanaged economically as it has been while our tax surplus is spirited away for good use elsewhere is a situation that has to end be it FFA or Independence.

As FFA is off the table by Tory wishes - who ignored Scots democracy for a decade - so the only option available now for reform of a discredited and unpopular system is Independence.
 
[TW]Fox;24318344 said:
How is it relevent?
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It clearly matters if the majority of Scots would wish to remain in the EU.


[TW]Fox;24318344 said:
EU membership is not something the current government can take us out of. What happens with a new government entirely depends on who gets voted in! This particular issue has no place in the independance debate, its irrelevent.
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They can do anything with Parliamentary Sovereignty, manifestos are not legally binding, so while the stated intention is to hold one next year there is no technicallity that prevents any Government from acting as it wishes. The stated intention is in the next administration if elected, and that this could be a possibility - with a system that would reflect the wishes of people who on a whole have a difference of opinion on EU membership - is only natural and logical to be a consideration, in terms of outlook and likelihood on their decision about Scottish Independence.

If it isn't about the money, or the complaints from yesteryear, it's got nothing to do with what the future is likely to bring either?

That's just as well then, I can just completely ignore the 50,000 Scottish children that are projected to be catapulted into poverty by the Coalition's welfare and economic policies in Westminster then..

Phew!
 
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[TW]Fox;24318584 said:
Is this figure adjusted for the expected number of people who wouldn't live and pay tax in Scotland were it not part of the UK?
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That has nothing to do with oil and gas production taxes, which that comment was in relation to.
 
Biohazard said:
That's just as well then, I can just completely ignore the 50,000 Scottish children that are projected to be catapulted into poverty by the Coalition's welfare and economic policies in Westminster then..

Phew!
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The coalition won't even exist a year after the referendum. Why do they matter so much? You want to pick up your ball and go home just because you don't like the current goalkeeper? What happens when you don't like the new goalkeeper either?

The current government is irrelevent to the independance question. It has less than 2 years of life left. Then we all get to pick a new one.
 
Muffin` said:
Well that's not strictly true, is it? A Scottish Dollar would equal a government with no fiscal track record and a minor reserve currency.
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Scotland would have a strong currency, and it would be able to sustain shocks and market fluctuations like other successful small nations.
 
[TW]Fox;24318740 said:
The coalition won't even exist a year after the referendum. Why do they matter so much? You want to pick up your ball and go home just because you don't like the current goalkeeper? What happens when you don't like the new goalkeeper either?
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I was using the polite name, I can call it a Tory Government, which it is, all the same.

The coalition will still be in power after the Scottish referendum I may add, and again I have to explain to you that it isn't so much who is possibly going to yank us out of Europe but if anyone is in the first place.

It's not hard.

So, what is the referendum about then Fox? What considerations should the people of Scotland reflect upon?

You seem to dislike historic policy, or grievances, you dislike the economic arguments, and now social and political projections are out of the window (in the same week the Treasury again drops a demographic "timebomb" on the debate)...



[TW]Fox;24318740 said:
The current government is irrelevent to the independance question. It has less than 2 years of life left. Then we all get to pick a new one.
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Of course they aren't irrelevent, they're involved the debate for heavens sake. They are the ones setting the vast majority of policy, and give indications towards the future.

For some reason, you don't want people to think about that. Instead it's shortbread tins and bagpipes.
 
[TW]Fox;24318960 said:
Why?

Other succesful small nations like who? Ireland? Cyprus? Iceland?
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Scotland is an economically and socially developed country, with a vast array of resources.

The irony of you proding at the misfortune of others while the UK limps along in relative decline isn't lost on me anyway. Heaven forbid anyone looks at the larger picture that includes nations that can successfully manage their affairs irrespective of geographic or population size.

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