So, you want to keep a pet tarantula?

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Originally posted by Nexus
When do Tarantulas start to create silk? Can they do it right away? Or does it have to develop as they mature? I haven't seen any evidence at all yet that my sling can create any.
They can create silk from birth, from two tiny spinnerets at the base of the abdomen.

Many tarantulas do not web at all.

Pepper - Chile Rose: Lays a thin, almost invisible "carpet" over the substrate

Miguel - Curly Hair: Lays a similar, but much thicker "carpet"

Idi - Mombasa Starburst: Only webs the inside of his burrow

Maz - Indian Violet: Amazing amount of tube webbing - fills the entire tank overnight

Mugabe - Usambara Baboon: Strong, thick silk lined tree web

Guarico - Suntiger: Complex tube web covered in dirt

Pele - Pinktoe: Large tree web in the shape of a sort of hammock

Sometimes the silk is so fine you can hardly see it :)
 
Glad you found it safe and sound - as hsp70 says, the "high-legged walk" is characteristic of smaller spiders. It's the only way they can tell where they're going, like a blind man using his stick. Tarantula eyesight is very poor.
 
Some of you may be wondering why I've discouraged si_sleaf from keeping an Indian Ornamental (Poecilotheria regalis)

I'm generally of the opinion that if you're sensible, then you can keep any species successfully. However, we all make mistakes and with a fast-moving Ornamental you're all the more likely to get caught out.

While there have been no recorded deaths from Tarantula bites, some genus' do have what is know as "Medically Significant" venom - where you may suffer painful after effects.

Such tarantulas tend to be confined to Africa and Asia

Chilobrachys
Haplopelma
Poecilotheria
Pterinochilus
Stromatopelma

And so on. While I'm pretty sure si_sleaf is capable of keeping a P regalis with no problems whatsoever, I don't want to be the one who said "Yeah, you can keep that it will be fine" - they are NOT a beginners species, and never will be. They are fast, nervous, aggressive when disturbed, and posess a medically significant venom.
If a friend of mine wanted a T and asked me about a P regalis I'd ask him to think again - so the same applies to Si. :)

Here are a few genuine accounts of P regalis bites:

In May 2002 I was putting sub adult female 3" Poecilotheria Ornata into a larger enclosure that she grew out of. when she decided to bolt out of the container and landed on my hand, I flinched alittle (natural reaction) she got defensive and then sank her fangs into my lower thumb palm side (meaty area there), she then ran into her new enclosure (go figure) if she hadnt done that I think I would have squashed her out of anger but anyway. the area of the bite gotten painful. I sealed the lid went to kitchen washed the area then I went to living room and laid down on the couch and by now the adrenaline was rushing, I was sweating really good. by a half an hour of lying down. The pain went from bite to my elbow. hour went by thats when I started to vomit. for around 3 hours still nauseated I started to feel abit feverish with chills. I fell asleep woke up in the morning. completely still nauseated and had shortness of breath. My wife went to the store and bought me dramamine (they didnt work) took percacets (which I had from an injury at work) the pain subsided, for 2 weeks I was always nauseated (like car sickness) I rode it out I guess until venom passed out of my system i felt better but all I can say is DO NOT GET BITTEN BY AN ADULT FEMALE, she can mess you up bad. If I was bitten by a an adult I probably would have been laid up in a hospital for awhile or even worse go into a coma from high fever. Right now as I speak I feel no ill effects from the bite

Thanks for this account... A good friend who runs a prominent local herp-store got nailed by a small P. fasciata a few years ago and had similar symptoms, although I think he managed to avoid vomiting.

He did continue to have muscle spasms (very painful) in that arm and actually twitching all through that side of his body (evidence of a full lateral systemic reaction to the toxin) for almost a year thereafter.

What I worry about are less informed people buying these things from pet stores or even online (you can't be sure everyone understands or heeds the warnings). It's only going to take one highly publicized death to rid us of our highly enjoyable spiders. And from the sound of it, Pokie venom is almost strong enough to kill even healthy adults.

I have just been had by a regalis, about 4 inch in legspan. Trying to re- organise its tank and it cought me on my little finger on my left hand. First bite in 11 years in this hobby. the sensation at first was a sharp (hot feeling) pain in the finger, although not enough to throw the T across the room, if you get what i mean. It hurt as though pins'n'needles were going through the finger. It bled for a few minutes but that did not last long. All i feel now, 25 minutes later is a strong, yet mildy painful pins an needles feeling. My finger has swollen a little but not a great deal and it seems to be the tophalf of the finger that is infected by this sensation. I can no longer type with that finger. I feel excited and curious at this event, the size and temperature of my digit seems to have increased and it is still throbbing with the pins and needle effect."

The following day:
Well i am still here.
I went to bed just after writing my initial post and the girlfreind took away some of the pain :). (Can't have pain without pleasure).
When it happend my finger did swell a little but that has gone now, although there is a little redness on the finger. It is tender to touch but feels stiff when i move it. Apart from that i have had no other effects. I am guesing that venom was injected because of the sensation i felt in my finger, if there was no venom i would imagine that it would have the same effect as sticking a pin in it, but this tingled (Painfully) and throbbed. No other parts of tmy body was effected. It was an unusual feeling, quite difficult to describe. I should also mention that i had a few glasses of wine so no doubt the alcohol would have subdued the pain and maybe even counteracted with any venom. Who knows?

4 days later:
If you recall I mentioned that I was bitten by a 4 inch regalis last week and reported no particular problems other than a sore finger, of which the discomfort is slowly disappearing. I have now noticed one or 4 other things. Now whether they are related to this bite I simply don't know, only those who have been bitten before maybe able to comment. 2 nights ago approximately 24 hours after the bite my right calf muscle seized for approx. 5 minutes. I put this down to a simple muscle cramp. (Had them before but not for a few years). At approx. 6am in the morning I had another in the same leg. Now this got me thinking if it was related to the T bite. That day I seemed very tired, exhausted and wanted to sleep, but I plodded on. The next day, still tired I finished work at 12pm dozed on the sofa and at around 3pm I got the same cramp, only this time in my left calf, later that day a muscle in my lower jaw temporarily seized during a yawn.

I have never had so many muscle cramps/seizures in such a short space of time. I was wandering if anyone else who has suffered bites, particularly a poke has experienced the same or similar? I know someone mentioned that someone had but I forget the name.

Don't mean to bore you with this but I do know that there are peoples out there collecting this sort of info. And I thought I might be worth mentioning, but again I cannot say if it were related to the bite. Both Calf muscles are still sore, but WOW!! what a few days I have had.

(Referring to a young boy)
He was feeding a baby regalis (about 2.5"), and he got a little too close (apparently the spider mistook his thumb for food). It held on for 20-30 seconds. After that, he took benadryl and laid down for a nap (it was in the morning that the bite occured). He didn't wake up until that evening... He could hardly walk (walked like granny), knees were stiff, chest was tight, breathing heavily. He went to the doctor (at the insistance of others, he didn't really want to go). They didn't really have any idea what to do, so they flushed his system with two or three bags of saline. The kept him overnight for observation, but there were no effects after that evening.

I was bit by a 5"+ Poecilotheria striata while I was taking some of the substrate out of the jar I was temporarily keeping it in (around 5pm). I accidentally touched its leg and she ran straight to the top of the jar. I quickly tried to cover the jar with my hand but like all Poecilotheria species she was so fast she ran onto my hand and the second she got on my hand she sunk her fangs in-on the top of my left hand right my pointer and middle knuckle. She stayed on my hand for about 15-20 seconds then I flung her off my hand back into the jar. The bite felt like a bee sting but about 50 times worse. About 20 minutes later my hand swelled up twice its size but the pain wasn't that bad.
Half an hour after that I started to get an immense burning feeling in the top of my hand and in the middle of my palm but the swelling started to go down. As time went by the pain traveled to my fingers and into my wrist and I had a tingling/painful stream going straight up my arm going into my chest.
I started to get really tired and almost passed out but I kept myself awake.
About 5 hours after I was bitten the pain in my hand became unbearable. It felt like I had a red hot knife going straight through the middle of my hand and my fingers felt like they were smashed with hammers. I took benadryl among other things so I could try to sleep through the pain. The pain was so
intense that it wouldn't let me sleep. I finally passed out around 7 in the morning. When I woke up around 1pm the pain was easily ignorable so I thought the worst was over. About 5 hours later I was at work and my legs started to get sore. After a while all my muscles got sore and I was walking like I was 95 years old and I started getting minor cramps in my calves. I got home about 9pm and went straight to bed. Shortly after I started getting cramps in my feet that were ridiculously painful and the joints in my hands and knees were sore. The rest of the night I would wake up to these painful cramps taking turns in all my muscles up and down my body from my feet muscles straight up to my jaw muscles (every single muscle in my body went
through these cramps-I'm not exaggerating). My jaw muscles clenched shut and I couldn't open my mouth for about 10 minutes.

Around 11am the next morning I was paralyzed for about 2+ hours. Any time I would move any part of my
body it would immediately cramp up. Once the cramps stopped I could hardly move because my muscles were so sore and if I moved my arms, legs, feet... in certain directions they would cramp so I had to move carefully. By that night I was still getting cramps but they weren't as painful or frequent.

For the next two weeks I was still getting cramps in my legs and pain in my hands and joints. I also noticed that I lost some muscle mass in my chest.
Then I woke up and my left shoulder joint was in intense pain.

After two weeks of still having symptoms from the bite and the feeling that I was melting away and now with this pain in my shoulder I decided to go to the doctor. I happen to know a Doctor from India (where the Mysore Ornamental is
from) who worked in India and treated many tarantula and snake bites.
He put me on steroids and pain killers and ran a bunch of blood tests. Now I am fine but occasionally get cramps in my legs and hands.

Grammostola rosea : No visible symptoms

Pterinochilus murinus : Swelling and pain in several days

Poecilotheria fasciata : Severe pain, numbness, respitory difficulties and sometimes cardiac failure. Local or total paralysys of the bitten limb. The venom attacks neuromusculare and causes tetanus. These symptoms lasts for 1-2 days but can return under 2-4 weeks.

Poecilotheria ornata : Similar to P. fasciata-bite but even more serious. Its been told that coma has occured after a bite with a paralyses during 2 weeks.

Theraphosa blondi : Intensive pain, miscoloraion of the hand where the bite took. The pain lasted 1-2 days. The mechanical damage wasnt too bad.

Poecilotheria seem to be the most dangerous genus, as a bite may involve a coma (a two day coma has been reported recently!).

The more commonly symptoms of a serious bite are :

- An immediate serious local pain after the bite.
- Stiffness and great difficulty to move the bitten member.
- An intense burning feeling covering all the thorax.
- Cardiac distress (often reported in case of a Stromatopelma bite).
- Cramps in calfs, and adductors at night for approximatively eight days.
- Pain generally still exists one month after the bite and even more in a few cases.

Poecilotheria bites are NOT exaggerated and DO NOT always result in mild or no symptoms. Poecs have neurotoxic venom and can produce lateral or bilateral systemic reactions (muscle fasciculations, severe cramping, nausea, weakness, dizziness, vomiting, tachycardia and irregular heartbeat). A close friend of mine was nailed by a small P. rufilata a few years ago and apart from the symptoms above, he experienced severe cramping on that whole side of his body for weeks, and even months after. These bite reports aren't faked and aren't to be taken lightly. Anyone keeping Poecilotheria MUST BE MADE AWARE of their potentially dangerous venom. Nature made these suckers brightly colored for a reason.

I ask that you all read the above post very carefully. It won't take you long.

I don't ever like to sensationalise the "danger factor" of keeping tarantulas, but if there is a species known for it's POTENTIAL danger then I will point it out. This is the first time Poecilotheria have been mentioned in any great detail in this thread, so now seems a good time to cover their venom.
 
It's been moulting time chez Mugabe as well - I tore open his burrow to find one shed exuvium - it was rather dry and crumpled so I'm guessing he shed some time yesterday. Usambaras are so secretive, it's hard to know the exact time.

All I knew is he was coming up to moult time - slow reactions, sealed his lair up, loss of appetite and swollen abdomen.

His legs are now far longer than before, although actual total amount of growth isn't anywhere like what Miguel is going through at the moment. This isn't surprising, because he doesn't eat very much.

He's certainly far larger than Idi now anyway.

Mugabe29


Mugabe30


For scale, the tank is 9 inches wide

Mugabe31


So forget what I said earlier, he's grown a substantial amount! :eek:
 
Kate and I will be there - Birmingham's only about 2 hours away.

SaBBz, the Pink Toes and White Knees at EasyExotics are actually pretty well priced.
Make sure the baby Pink Toe is kept well ventilated (plenty of air holes) but damp. If it dries out the spider will dehydrate and die ever so quickly, especially at such a small size. Keep an eye out for mould - tiny little white or green dots - any mould needs removing at once by changing the substrate.
Avics walk and move in a totally different way to terrestrial spiders - they're very interesting to watch.

Of course if you want uber cheap spiderlings you have to go for something:

Massively common
That has over 500 babies
From a dealer in Germany

Here's a price list from a German dealer:


Acanthoscurria geniculata, CB 02/03, 3€

Aphonopelma seemanni, CB 04/03, Nymphs, ready soon

Avicularia geroldi, CB 03/03, 4€, 5/17€, 10/ 30€

Brachypelma auratum, CB 5/02, some singles, 10€

Brachypelma albopilosum, CB 06/02, some singles, 5€

Brachypelma smithi, CB 03/03, 5€, 5/20€

Brachypelma vagans, CB 02/03 3€

Brachypelmides klaasi, CB 06/02, 10€

Ceratogyros bechuanicus, CB 03/03, 4€, 5/17€, 10/ 30€

Chilobrachys huahini, CB 02/03, 3€

Chilobrachys fimbriatus, CB 03/03, 12€

Eupalaestrus weijenberghi, CB 02/03, 5€

Grammostola actaeon, CB 02/03, 12€

Grammostola aureostriata, CB 02/03, 4€

Grammostola pulchra, CB 12/02, 4€,

Grammostola rosea, CB 02/03, 2€, 5/ 8€, 10/15€

Poecilotheria rufilata, CB12/02, 12€

Hysterocrates hercules, CB 02/03, 4€,

Lasiodora parahybana, CB 03/03, Nymphs, ready soon

Lasiodora (Vitalius ) cristatus, CB 03/03, Nymphs, ready soon

Nhandu (Brazilopelma) collotaravillosum, CB 03/03, 3€, 5/13€

Psalmopoeus reduncus CB 01/03, 8€

Theraphosa blondie, CB 12/02, 14€



Adult Females:



0.2 Aphonopelma bicoloratum, XL: (5,5 cm BL), 40€,

L: (4,5 cm BL),35€

0.1 Avicularia geroldi, (6 cm BL), L, 40€

0.1 Psalmopoeus irminia, (5 cm BL)L, 40€

0.2 Grammostola rosea, (5 cm BL) L, 15€ each

0.1 Haplopelma lividum, (5cm BL), L, 35€

0.1 Poecilotheria formosa, (6cm BL) , 80€

0.1 Poecilotheria regalis, (7cm BL) 70€

0.1 Poecilotheri fasciata,(7cm BL), 60€



The postage as a secure and fast letter to UK is 5€, as a parcel for adults or quantities more than 10 slings 10€!

Those prices (and the range available) are far better than generally found in the UK - of course, at the show there will be a lot of rare spiderlings available.
 
Originally posted by Nexus
I've got 'The Tarantula Keeper's Guide' on order, which hopefully explains a lot of these things.

I'm actually thinking I might quite like to get a sub-adult female red-knee. Though I wouldn't buy that one they had in my local petshop, as they wanted £80 for it and judgeing from what I have now learned about Tarantulas it didn't look too healthy, it was all hunched up. Probably better seeing what stock some of the online dealers have.
Adult or sub adult Brachypelma are always going to be expensive because they are in demand - plus you are no longer to collect them from the wild, so all stock is captive bred, and may take 7 years to mature.

A hunched up tarantula is normally just stressed - this si what happens if I don't give Miguel enough dirt to dig in - he hunches up. Give a tarantula some form of shelter or the opportunity to burrow and it will make a rapid recovery :)
 
Originally posted by Nexus
Interesting watching Shiva right now. All morning she has been busy carrying the substrate around, which I have not seen her do until now. She has cleared one area of the container right down to the bottom. Though I'm not really sure what she is trying to make. Fun to watch though.
Chile roses are notoriously crap at building :D
They tend to move all the substrate about but never get very far - it's very amusing to watch.
Miguel has cleared one end of his tank completely - it's a security thing, they like being able to go under cover or have a small burrow set lower than the floor level. :)

Nexus, if you want a bigger handleable tarantula (it's always nice to have a spider you can hold) then get a sub adult Curly hair, my pet shop does them for about £15 :)
 
Originally posted by Repo
Are you sure they don't explode ? :confused: :p


S/He's still at it & the abdomen is about 3x the size it was before O_o
Mental isn't it? Spiders only eat until they are full.
Their abdomens can swell to a ridiculous size - but personally as soon as they get a little tubby I feel it's safer to cut down on the food - a swollen abdomen can increase the chance of a rupture.
 
At last, Pele has decided to shed his skin.
For the last few days his legs have faded from salmon pink down to a dull grey (this is the new, darker cuticle forming beneath the old skin) so I knew a shed had to be imminent.

Came home from work to find one crumpled little skin, and one gangly spider. He is still very pale, translucent grey legs which might regain their pinkness as he hardens off - I'm not honestly sure, because baby Pink Toes undergo a complete colour change as they grow - changing from pink to black. I'm not sure at what stage this happens or if it's a gradual transformation.
More good news is that his missing leg has regenerated. :)
I can't really get a pic of Pele through his (immensely strong!) web, but here's the skin, with a coke bottle top for scale:

Pele04


EDIT:

He's come out for a stretch:

Pele05
 
Originally posted by Nexus
Looking around various Tarantula sites today, I'm getting a bit worried. My new smithi does look a hell of a lot like my rosea, I know it only has like a 1cm leg span, is this just the way it is with them not having yet developed their colour?

The owner assured me it was a smithi as I made him double check. But Im no expert.
Don't panic, most spiderlings (Avics excepted) look pretty much the same - small, pinky brown and plain. They won't change for a few months :) If the guy bred them he will know what is what :)
 
Nexus:
B boehmei is my absolute favourite Brachypelma - have you googled for adult pics? They are supremely gorgeous tarantulas.

Repo:
I've used http://www.uk.globallivefood.com/ before, and they are indeed a subsidary of Easy Exotics. Fast delivery and the crickets are good.
£20 is about going rate for a sub-adult Avicularia avicularia - adults are jet black with pink toes, in the light you can see blue and green iridescence all over them.
They are also docile (but the walk fast, and have an unnerving habit of jumping) and pretty easy to look after - tall tank, not much substrate, a sterilised log to build a web from, and keep them well ventilated with good humidity :)

Nexus:
Most pet places or garden centres will sell various grades of vermiculite, it's 99.999% sterile and inorganic :)
 
SaBBz:
You can keep slings in basically ANYTHING - just punch plenty of small holes in the lid for ventilation. An overly large container will stress them out.

Here's Pele's tank - this is easily big enough for him until he's moulted another couple of times.

PeleTank01


WRT fruit flies, I've never tried them, but they are a total painin the arse by all accounts. I give mine small cricks (the smallest size) with the back legs disabled.

Popped down to my local T shop today to find he's had some interesting new stock.

A gorgeous gorgeous adult male Avicularia avicularia - photos's cannot do these spiders justice, they really are pretty in the flesh.
This male was big and leggy, probably almost 6" which is large for a pink toe. He was also very nippy - when we opened the tank he was up the guy's arm and across his shoulders in a flash - getting the thing back in its tank was pretty tricky.
I'm very pleased to report that the adults do the exact same "silly walk" as the babies - all waving legs everywhere :D A very gentle and pretty tarantula

The other T of interest was an adult male Theraphosa blondi (Goliath)
If you've never seen a Goliath before, they are certainly impressive. This male was considered "small" at around 8.5 inches..... :eek:
Everything about them is super-sized. The base of each leg is as thick as your little finger.

I never fancied one before, but having seen this one, and with the show coming up.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
Originally posted by DirtyMinx
Another to add to the wish list them heh!

Got any piccys of a Goliath?
Although not instantly attractive, T blondi's are certainly a handsome species.

Adults range from dark brown (almost black) to a deep cinammon colour. Some have reddish flecking or striping on the knees, and a thick coating of red/brown hairs.
To me they always look a bit beaten up, battle scarred :D

http://www.donsroom.co.uk/~lopez/Theraphosablondi01

To give you an idea of scale, here's someone holding an average sized (8-9") T blondi

http://www.donsroom.co.uk/~lopez/Theraphosablondi02

Please note this is NOT recommended - T blondi is a large and aggressive tarantula capable of inflicting a serious mechanical wound.
They also posess the itchiest urticating hairs known to man ;)

http://www.donsroom.co.uk/~lopez/Theraphosablondi03
 
Webbing all over the shop by a terrestrial T means it's getting comfy - it sounds silly, but think of it as laying down a carpet. He's starting to settle in :)

Before a moult they will generally spin a reasonably thick web to moult on, and become very inactive. It's just something you learn to spot with experience in all honesty :)
 
si_sleaf:

Glad you're coping well with the Ornamental mate. They grow a huge amount with every shed at that stage.

Nexus:
Just wait until it gets really big! Boehmei's are the best Brachypelma IMO, hands down. They dig a fair old bit, so don't try to stop her or she'll get stressed out. Stressed spiders sit hunched ina corner rather than under their hide/intheir web.

Unfortunately I've got some bad news today. Checked the tanks today to find that Idi has badly injured himself somehow.
Both back legs appear crushed, as if he's fallen awkwardly. One was far more severe than the other, the leg was actually almost severed at the join between the femur and patella. An ugly black scab, encrusted with dirt, had formed, but I could see it was still leaking pretty badly.

I moved him into an ICU and had a good look - whatever happened I knew that leg had to go.

I popped him in the fridge for a few minutes (he's quite the feisty one) and read up on limb surgery in the TKG.

I placed the ICU in a larger tank, and got to work. I reasoned that it would be best to grip him by the carapace with forceps, and then use tweezers to remove the wounded leg.
Idi had other ideas - after a few seconds of being still, he reached round, grabbed the forceps and launched himself at me.

I let him calm down again, but I could see the wound was leaking quite badly.
I grabbed the tweezers and just went for it - pinched the leg at the base of the femur lightly, and it dropped off, but continued to twitch for several minutes afterwards

Here are the pictures:

http://www.vsupermarket.co.uk/~lopez/MySpiders/IdiSurgery01

http://www.vsupermarket.co.uk/~lopez/MySpiders/IdiSurgery02

http://www.vsupermarket.co.uk/~lopez/MySpiders/IdiSurgery03

http://www.vsupermarket.co.uk/~lopez/MySpiders/IdiSurgery04

http://www.vsupermarket.co.uk/~lopez/MySpiders/IdiSurgery05

He's now recovering (I hope) in an ICU.
It was a really nerve-racking and traumatic experience, and I think I can safely the same goes for the spider.

My main worry is this - what do do about this other leg? The damage is nowhere near as severe as the left leg, and I don't want to remove it unless absolutely necessary. There does not appear to be any leaking from the area, and a small dark scab has formed. He is moving the leg, but not amazingly well.
 
When you remove the leg, it automatically seals itself at the base, like a diaphragm or valve.
This prevents any further haemolymph loss.

I've moved Idi to a small shallow tank filled with substrate. I've excavated him a small burrow with cork bark shelter at one end and he has found it and "moved in", even webbed around the entrance.

I'll keep him in the small tank at least until he next moults to prevent any further injury.
 
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