Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
That's what I am hoping. I mean right now installers are making bank. Once demand slows down that will change for starters.
Anyone know much about mcs? With the quotes I've been receiving just tempted to souce the kit myself and use my go to roofer and then find a spark. Only issue is couple of mcs ones I can find aren't even interested. Guess that's where they make the killing e.g one quote I received for 15k, I have sourced the exact same kit for 8k...
I think DIY fitting and just forgoing any feed in to the grid payment will become popular.
Soldato
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You mean legal fitting or illegal fitting?
Ie complying with the legislation or just installing kit that could potentially kill someone so avoiding costs/barriers like DNO applications
One other thing thats going to end up interesting IMO is when we see some fires and roof issues caused by either poor or DIY. Insurers aren't going to like footing bills for dodgy installs.
Soldato
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That's why I would really only recommend DIY if you can put it on an outbuilding or something.
If your DIY system burns your house down it will definitely cause insurance shenanigans.
Something like what @Ron-ski is doing makes sense to me.
I'm not talking about a self install, but surely any competent spark could wire up solar/batteries to the consumer board? As far as I can see it mainly impacts on being able to export to the grid?
I can't see mcs is a legal requirement?
I bought, designed, and helped install my own system, still used a proper roofer, and electrician, sourced my own scaffold. I did get an MCS done, which in hindsight I shouldn't have bothered to be honest, as I could have achieved the same thing with the G99 certification, which again I completed myself. It's fully insured and registered on the home insurance, as I told them before starting it, which is why I didn't go with a self built battery bank, as they would not insure it, unless it was in an outbuilding.
Yeah the route I'm looking at going at and getting the help of a spark to complete the g99 application (could even get the old man too as a retired electrician himself)
Just can't see how you obtain mcs certification without using a msc installer; and the ones I've contacted are insistent on supplying the kit too. I wonder why that is...
There is no legal requirement for MCS, believe it or not it is a charitable foundation that set standards only. Ofgem have clear guidance for SEG licencees, stating they must offer alternate to MCS as it is not a legal requirement.
I did a self install. Mine was a lot easier as I only had an easily accessible flat roof on a garage to contend with. No chance I'd be going anywhere near my actual roof. 
All the G98 DNO application can be done as a DIYer. MCS is only required if you want to get any export payment.
Anything bigger than G98 (3.6kw), or more complex (like including a battery) I'd say it's not worth doing it yourself - as you'd want to benefit from the export payments.
Plenty of companies selling DIY kits. For example...
www.pluginsolar.co.uk
All the G98 DNO application can be done as a DIYer. MCS is only required if you want to get any export payment.
Anything bigger than G98 (3.6kw), or more complex (like including a battery) I'd say it's not worth doing it yourself - as you'd want to benefit from the export payments.
Plenty of companies selling DIY kits. For example...
Plug In Solar - Your DIY Solar Solution
Plug In Solar - Your DIY Solar Energy Solution
www.pluginsolar.co.uk
Soldato
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Yeah the process is certainly DIYable. Most of the G99 application for mine is just supplier specs etc. A quick scan of the G99 application submitted looks like either simple forms summarising, as mentioned specs and tests for the panels etc and a simple line diagram.
My fear initially above was I think some people aren't aware of the G98/99/100 and when its required.
Unlike most stuff you can do to your house where you do not need to advise anyone.
I would also suggest roof suitability should be a consideration as well. If you have a property that you know has a sound roof then your probably fine to take the gamble of no formal assessment for suitability.
My quotes varied a lot, with the best having had the internals of the roof checked prior to quote (construction check of timber dimensions, format and gaps) and wind loadings calculations provided, the other nothing, they didn't check and I assume just assumed it would be fine.
A spark isn't going to be able to do that. Maybe 1 in what 100 may need some consideration of if the roof is really suitable.
For me the biggest risk will come later I think if you haven't ensured that your install has been competently assessed.
I do think its likely we will see some kind of insurer issue down the line once we end up with some dodgy installs causing fires and as I said being responsible for roof failures.
Imagine 5 years time if you start to get questions on solar in regards getting quotes for home insurance due to issues would be my fear, could not happen, but it could.
Having just checked the G99 on mine, in my email from about 30 minutes ago is ..... my G99 approval!
4 weeks to the day since submission!
My fear initially above was I think some people aren't aware of the G98/99/100 and when its required.
Unlike most stuff you can do to your house where you do not need to advise anyone.
I would also suggest roof suitability should be a consideration as well. If you have a property that you know has a sound roof then your probably fine to take the gamble of no formal assessment for suitability.
My quotes varied a lot, with the best having had the internals of the roof checked prior to quote (construction check of timber dimensions, format and gaps) and wind loadings calculations provided, the other nothing, they didn't check and I assume just assumed it would be fine.
A spark isn't going to be able to do that. Maybe 1 in what 100 may need some consideration of if the roof is really suitable.
For me the biggest risk will come later I think if you haven't ensured that your install has been competently assessed.
I do think its likely we will see some kind of insurer issue down the line once we end up with some dodgy installs causing fires and as I said being responsible for roof failures.
Imagine 5 years time if you start to get questions on solar in regards getting quotes for home insurance due to issues would be my fear, could not happen, but it could.
Having just checked the G99 on mine, in my email from about 30 minutes ago is ..... my G99 approval!
4 weeks to the day since submission!
It's not a case of when, there has been plenty of fires, and no need to rely on DIYers for them, we have plenty of cowboy professionals for that.
Solar PV house fires, BRE report
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/630640/fire-solar-pv-systems-industry-recommendations.pdf Sobering reading for anyone thinking of installing solar PV or even experienced installers. My take on this report is, DC arcing is almost...
electricianforum.co.uk
Soldato
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It's not a case of when, there has been plenty of fires, and no need to rely on DIYers for them, we have plenty of cowboy professionals for that.
Solar PV house fires, BRE report
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/630640/fire-solar-pv-systems-industry-recommendations.pdf Sobering reading for anyone thinking of installing solar PV or even experienced installers. My take on this report is, DC arcing is almost...
Oh yes sorry if it read like they weren't already happening, I meant as in enough of them happening to start to worry insurers to make them start to ask for details of install etc.
I may have mentioned before but the company I work for had a solar roof fire (many $M of damage) elsewhere on the globe which led to a total solar ban. We have finally managed to get that lifted but our H&S global people will object to any capital request (which they can veto) which is roof mounted solar.
Luckily for us ours will be ground based. Although new fear is local international airport will object due to the proposed size of install as we are on the flight path. (Apparently its a reflection risk)
And yeah I agree on the cowboys side. I took the difference in the survey for the quote into consideration, then the quote details itself. But luckily for me the cheaper was also the one I was most comfortable with, felt most through and was most detailed. 100% could be misplaced "trust" however!
Not sure how I would have reacted to the £2k diff if it was the other way round!
Thanks all for input. I would rather go down the route or a mcs approved installer. I don't mind paying a slight premium for the privilege but not best of 7k to install a system for what 1 or 2 days work at max
Will try get a couple more quotes but not particularly hopeful. If anything may just give it up and revisit if/when things settle down
Will try get a couple more quotes but not particularly hopeful. If anything may just give it up and revisit if/when things settle down
Soldato
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Yeah thats how I would play it personally.
I had a figure in mind for mine when I was waiting, based on the quotes people put up here. I figured £12k was reasonable. It came in just over at £12.3
I added the bird protection to bring it to almost £13k.
The bird protection is expensive for sure, but then the one they spec'd is from what i can tell available for half that price online. Again like everything there are very cheap to more expensive versions.
I'm really not sure how much labour is really additional to add this whilst up on the roof but meh not going to argue.
I price checked my components vs online retailers. I found most items were around the mid point of online but a couple were below what I could find online so certainly wasnt being charged rip off prices for the equipment (which some quotes seem to do)
As said my quote ignoring bird stuff is 12.3k The equipment is just under £8.9k of that, so £3.4/£3.5 k is install.
Install includes certs for electrical, MCS and structural, plus an independent warranty (10 years insurance basically) ignoring them (all fully itemised costs) its £3.2k for the install.
I am not that convinced I would save significant money getting scaff, 1-2 days electrician, plus others capable of competently fitting the roof side for significantly less.
With what trades seem to charge now, and whilst I would love to see it lower, it doesn't feel like £lol for the install.
@HungryHippos how many man days were spent fitting yours as its similar in size and complexity to mine. Be a handy thing to know.
I had a figure in mind for mine when I was waiting, based on the quotes people put up here. I figured £12k was reasonable. It came in just over at £12.3
I added the bird protection to bring it to almost £13k.
The bird protection is expensive for sure, but then the one they spec'd is from what i can tell available for half that price online. Again like everything there are very cheap to more expensive versions.
I'm really not sure how much labour is really additional to add this whilst up on the roof but meh not going to argue.
I price checked my components vs online retailers. I found most items were around the mid point of online but a couple were below what I could find online so certainly wasnt being charged rip off prices for the equipment (which some quotes seem to do)
As said my quote ignoring bird stuff is 12.3k The equipment is just under £8.9k of that, so £3.4/£3.5 k is install.
Install includes certs for electrical, MCS and structural, plus an independent warranty (10 years insurance basically) ignoring them (all fully itemised costs) its £3.2k for the install.
I am not that convinced I would save significant money getting scaff, 1-2 days electrician, plus others capable of competently fitting the roof side for significantly less.
With what trades seem to charge now, and whilst I would love to see it lower, it doesn't feel like £lol for the install.
@HungryHippos how many man days were spent fitting yours as its similar in size and complexity to mine. Be a handy thing to know.
Soldato
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2 day job basically, for 2-3 people. They split up who was doing what, and didn't all show up on the dot day 1 either.
That seems a shockingly long time, considering mine was done within 13 hours (total) and there was only me and and the roofer for the 16 panels, and then the sparky hooked it all up and commissioned it the following day. That was really taking our time with the install as well, being extra careful with all aspects of it as well, no cutting corners or hurrying anything. My scaffold was already erected however, so not sure if you included that in the time taken.
Soldato
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Included scaffold in the 2 days yes.
Quote was as priced for the job so made no odds to me really, if they took less or more time. Accuracy matters more than speed.
Quote was as priced for the job so made no odds to me really, if they took less or more time. Accuracy matters more than speed.
Agree, accuracy over speed every time. It just seems odd that a professional install company would spend more time that a total novice, however maybe mine was planned better, and I did have the foresight of knowing the layout, had roof drawings for the brackets and where all the cables needed to go first etc.
The bit that took longest on my electrical side was actually the GivEnergy portal being slow AF, and having to wait in a queue on the phone for them to sort out an issue.