Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

pc-guy said:
Hi looking for a small solar and a set of battery storage to take advantage of night rate.

What’s the general supply and install cost per kw generation and kWh battery storage?
Click to expand...

You cant really look at it like that, there is a lot of fixed cost with PV, scaffolding, an inverter, cabling to consumer unit etc that is practically the same if you go for 1 panel or 20 (its not quite but close enough to make no real diff)

Batteries similar but not so marked. The larger ones tending to drop the cost per kwh stored a little as there is some one off cost, BMS etc

The general approach seems to be, within reason, as many panels as you can fit.
With battery I think aiming for 50-60% of your daily consumption seems to give a good balance. Thats assuming you move to an offpeak tariff so you can charge them through winter. (Roughly Oct-Feb)
 
bazzabear said:
After nearly a year of trying to get multiple quotes for comparison purposes, I have finally given up and I'm going with the people who provided my first quote back in April. They have, in the meantime, fitted to a friend's house and have done a very neat job, so I'm not using them blind.
They've sent a rough quote based on a Google Maps survey, estimating 10 panels would fit on our South facing roof for a 3.95kWp system. £5900.
The quote has provision for adding a hybrid inverter and dual Fox LV5200 batteries for an additional cost of £6849. But I'm really not sure whether a battery system makes sense for us. We both work from home, so at least some of the power generated during the day will be used immediately. I guess we need to calculate what generation we can expect, and what our usual use is during the day. Will be having a call with them to plan further this afternoon, so will see what they advise.

I'm also not sure whether to go with a bird barrier system. Expensive at £1200. But as well as the bird protection, it also makes the install look a lot neater I think.
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Just saw Journey commented but agree that if your possibly considering batteries later then just get a hybrid now.

Battery benefit really comes from off peak charging benefit as well as direct harvested solar.

Thats bonkers for bird netting, mine is using a decent one as well and its roughly £600 with around half being the cheapest price I can find for the system itself online.
As with everything there are different versions offering and looking a bit different.
 
To add further, the Fox batteries are really easy to add if you have the inverter, pretty much plug and play with a few configuration changes in the software. The price is also better even if paying VAT you can get the LV5200 under £1900 each.
 
Cheers guys, very good point about the inverter.

I should have said too, the bird protection I mentioned is the more expensive version, not just the netting. It's a solid black plastic 'verge' around the panels basically.

I've just had a quick look at a few days electricity usage during work days, and it looks like even with us both using our laptops, the 'base' usage during the day is around 200W, with peaks morning, lunchtime and evening. So that suggests that the battery wouldn't be wasted during the day - we would be likely generating more than we were using throughout most of the daylight hours. But we'll see what the guy says.
 
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bazzabear said:
Cheers guys, very good point about the inverter.

I should have said too, the bird protection I mentioned is the more expensive version, not just the netting. It's a solid black plastic 'verge' around the panels basically.

I've just had a quick look at a few days electricity usage during work days, and it looks like even with us both using our laptops, the 'base' usage during the day is around 200W, with peaks morning, lunchtime and evening. So that suggests that the battery wouldn't be wasted during the day - we would be likely generating more than we were using throughout most of the daylight hours. But we'll see what the guy says.
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Are you sure its solid?
Generally you need some ventilation under the panels.
When the panels get hot they drop in efficiency.

I am getting bird blocker its like long plastic spines that are also attached together.
If you google bird blocker you will see the sort of thing.
Annoyingly it seems to have dropped in price a lot since I agreed the cost to add it.
Ah well its comited now ;)
 
bazzabear said:
I am absolutely not sure! :D

It is this stuff I believe:

SolaSkirt - Solar Panel Protection - Pigeon Proofing - Surrey

SolaSkirt offers Premium Pigeon Proof Solar Panel Installation in Surrey our in-house Installation team giving them a sleek finish! Contact us today.
solaskirt.co.uk solaskirt.co.uk
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Ah ok so its sounds like its a "unique" product so I guess thats what they charge for install no matter what.
I agree it looks smart but I'm not sure about ventilation with it. You may want to check that out.
 
www.youtube.com

I Bought a Solar Skirt

It's pigeon eviction day. This solar skirt should keep them out.Get your solar skirt here: https://solaskirt.co.ukPlease tell Sam that Julian sent you to the...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

This looks like it being installed

I not sure looking at that that it looks that much nicer actually. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.
 
Some bird protection is a good idea, but I don't think £1,200 is worth it and that solid skirt won't allow much airflow under the panels to cool them in the summer, making them even more inefficient in hotter weather. You'd be better off spending the extra money on buying in-roof panels and using the money that way IMO, if it's a looks thing not just for pure function.
 
This looks like what my installer used:

www.birdcontrol.uk.com

GALVANIZED 30m Solar Panel Bird Exclusion Kit - EnviroGuard

Professional Solar Proofing Kit, Inch x Half inch Mesh, 60 adjustable clips, sheet cutters and stainless steel corner ties. Everything you need to treat 30m (4kw array/16 solar panels), save 15% on component prices Includes wire mesh, 60 adjustable retaining clips, stainless steel corner ties...
www.birdcontrol.uk.com www.birdcontrol.uk.com
 
I fitted my own. A combination of bird spikes which are stuck with mastic (some have come off and need sticking back on again) and black plastic fencing mesh with small holes, which I cable tied on. But then I've got no issues with climbing a ladder and getting on my roof, not a bad suburban view from up the there.

I'll use the same plastic mesh on my garage install.
 
HungryHippos said:
This looks like what my installer used:

www.birdcontrol.uk.com

GALVANIZED 30m Solar Panel Bird Exclusion Kit - EnviroGuard

Professional Solar Proofing Kit, Inch x Half inch Mesh, 60 adjustable clips, sheet cutters and stainless steel corner ties. Everything you need to treat 30m (4kw array/16 solar panels), save 15% on component prices Includes wire mesh, 60 adjustable retaining clips, stainless steel corner ties...
www.birdcontrol.uk.com www.birdcontrol.uk.com
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Most seem to charge anywhere from £500-1000 to fit this stuff. Robbery.
 
Ron-ski said:
I fitted my own. A combination of bird spikes which are stuck with mastic (some have come off and need sticking back on again) and black plastic fencing mesh with small holes, which I cable tied on. But then I've got no issues with climbing a ladder and getting on my roof, not a bad suburban view from up the there.

I'll use the same plastic mesh on my garage install.
Click to expand...

The other option is to just use the scaffold that is put up for the job, most of them are removed a day or two after the install is complete. As an outlier there was a guy a few streets down from me who was stuck with it for nearly 3 weeks until they removed it!
 
bazzabear said:
After nearly a year of trying to get multiple quotes for comparison purposes, I have finally given up and I'm going with the people who provided my first quote back in April. They have, in the meantime, fitted to a friend's house and have done a very neat job, so I'm not using them blind.
They've sent a rough quote based on a Google Maps survey, estimating 10 panels would fit on our South facing roof for a 3.95kWp system. £5900.
The quote has provision for adding a hybrid inverter and dual Fox LV5200 batteries for an additional cost of £6849. But I'm really not sure whether a battery system makes sense for us. We both work from home, so at least some of the power generated during the day will be used immediately. I guess we need to calculate what generation we can expect, and what our usual use is during the day. Will be having a call with them to plan further this afternoon, so will see what they advise.

I'm also not sure whether to go with a bird barrier system. Expensive at £1200. But as well as the bird protection, it also makes the install look a lot neater I think.
Click to expand...
Batteries are gamechanging. In summer they can make you fully self sufficient. In winter you use offpeak rates of electricity all day long. You will find them bring your breakeven forward probably. I am saving £600 this winter alone from my tariff shifting.
I would get the hybrid inverter if I were you and add batteries yourself, Pylontechs are brilliant as you will have seen me bang on about in this forum and much cheaper than you're quoted.
The bird mesh is extortionate. Most mesh systems are just a mesh fitted with plastic cable-tie like pegs that clip to any panel. Have someone else come and do that for you for a reasonable price after the job.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
You cant really look at it like that, there is a lot of fixed cost with PV, scaffolding, an inverter, cabling to consumer unit etc that is practically the same if you go for 1 panel or 20 (its not quite but close enough to make no real diff)

Batteries similar but not so marked. The larger ones tending to drop the cost per kwh stored a little as there is some one off cost, BMS etc

The general approach seems to be, within reason, as many panels as you can fit.
With battery I think aiming for 50-60% of your daily consumption seems to give a good balance. Thats assuming you move to an offpeak tariff so you can charge them through winter. (Roughly Oct-Feb)
Click to expand...
I get your logic but I would go 100% of average daily use within reason.

While I accept that there are diminishing returns on batteries the less you stress them the better and there will be a lot of winter days (the last two weeks almost in fact) where solar generation is close to 0 and the price differential is in the order of 7.5p vs 40p, so you don't want to be pulling half you daily load from the grid.
Also bear in mind they will have depth of discharge of 90% or 95%.
 
The stuff I have looks like an array of zip ties that follows the profile the roof. Not the most sophisticated but I've seen some birds try to get under it with no success it's pretty tough stuff.
 
SBo said:
I get your logic but I would go 100% of average daily use within reason.

While I accept that there are diminishing returns on batteries the less you stress them the better and there will be a lot of winter days (the last two weeks almost in fact) where solar generation is close to 0 and the price differential is in the order of 7.5p vs 40p, so you don't want to be pulling half you daily load from the grid.
Also bear in mind they will have depth of discharge of 90% or 95%.
Click to expand...

Yeah I meant 50%+ of usable not headline.

I drew up a pretty sophisticated model, helps being an accountant and having good excel model skills. My battery was going to be just over 50%, now around 55% (due to supplier change)
Even then it only needs drawing some peak from grid for 7/12 months to a varying degree.
I then tried another battery which would take me to 75-80% roughly. The ROI was around 10 years on that.
Anything above 75-80% would start to get pretty insane on payback.

Obviously its all based on current go at 7.5/44. Which can of course change later.

Plus not forgetting you can load shift some and unless you have very low usage 0:30-4:30 you will see some usage then as well. My usage has a reasonable base layer due to Chia. As such I assumed based on readings 1/7 of my daily usage would be directly drawn over the 0:30-4:30 window.
 
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