Soldato
Looks highly likely its just that and with it being a common fault.
Worth £25 plus his fee to risk a fix I guess.
Inverters do seem to be the main fault. They are doing the heavy lifting I guess. Lots of switching and current conversion.
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Looks highly likely its just that and with it being a common fault.
Worth £25 plus his fee to risk a fix I guess.
Inverters do seem to be the main fault. They are doing the heavy lifting I guess. Lots of switching and current conversion.
Nusance tripping is a consideration but the significant safety risk from putting an inverter on a shared RCD is that fact that it will continue to provide power to the shared circuits even after the upstream RCD trips for a fault (ie potential electrocution) occurance on one of the circuits. The inverter will eventually shut down after noting the loss of grid power but it will be a lot longer than the 30ms response time of the RCD.
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Associate
Yes I understand that risk, its been like that since 2014 when the inverter was installed. I can fit rcbo's to remove the risk and I may well do that, thanks.
Soldato
Here's a useful video for anybody who's thinking of having solar panels, or those disbelievers who don't think pigeons are an issue.
I've not watched it all, but it clearly shows the issue.
I've not watched it all, but it clearly shows the issue.
Associate
Mine was pigeon free for a couple of years, 3 doors up had them all under his panels. Then they moved in under mine and I had to get a local roofer in to put wire mesh as in the video all round held in place by cable ties. My birds then moved next door forcing them to get meshed the next year. They are a real problem. I now suffer with house sparrows who figured out how to limbo under the mesh where tiles meet. Much smaller problem but just as loud from 6am constant chirping.
Man of Honour
We don't have a huge number of pigeons here, but lots of other birds and to me it wasn't a risk I was willing to take - for the cost it seemed like a nobrainer to me.
Soldato
Good watch
How bloody dirty were those panels!
How bloody dirty were those panels!
Soldato
Soldato
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Solar fitter popped in today to take readings for the G99. He took the cover off the consumer and the downstairs ring MCB has got evidence of melted wires sticking out the top. Oy.
Looks like the previous owners of the house had a replacement MCB of a newer Hager generation that doesn't quite fit the bar.
Sparky reckoned new consumer and RCBOs rather than the single RCBO and MCBs. I prefer that setup, but I'm a bit irked at the cost of a new consumer. Grr.
Looks like the previous owners of the house had a replacement MCB of a newer Hager generation that doesn't quite fit the bar.
Sparky reckoned new consumer and RCBOs rather than the single RCBO and MCBs. I prefer that setup, but I'm a bit irked at the cost of a new consumer. Grr.
Soldato
@randal What have they quoted you for a new consumer unit? I'm having one soon, would be interesting to compare, although I've not had the quote yet.
Soldato
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He said ball park £700, I think that's about 10 RCBO units and all the fitting etc.
Soldato
Mine said RCBO's are £25 each, looking on CEF 12 way Hager board is £180, sparky for the day is about £240, so about £700 give or take a bit.
Hager RCBOs are £20/25ea, enclosure £100ish plus time for fitting, testing and issuing an EICR. Price seems just about OK.
Can you post a photo of the current board and condition.
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Soldato
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Associate
Just had mine replaced and it cost me £760, so £700 seems a fair price. My consumer unit was ~35yrs old, plastic and things were doubled up so needed doing.
Ok so re the fault, its not because of the mismatched MCB since it is not at the busbar end. It is due to the poor termination of the ring main. When cores are twisted they end up only making contact with the copper in the MCB at a few points, whereas if inserted side by side they will make contact along the full length. The ends should be untwisted, cut, stripped and re-inserted into the MCB assuming that the MCB is undamaged but it looks OK.
That's clearly a heavily loaded circuit, what is on it? What is on the spur (the third cable)? Could the spur be put on its own or another MCB to reduce total load on that circuit (good design)?
The board itself is fine but old, 15amp MCBs went a long time ago (anyone know the year?) A new RCBO board with SPDs (if required) would be a good investment. A split load board also OK and cheaper but you know the pros/cons. Stick with a good brand like Hager- you could source yourself and just pay labour to save a fair bit subject to how your sparky feels about that. Very easy job looking at the photos, load of room to work and plenty of slack on cables by taking the trunking back a bit. Just so long as testing doesn't throw up anything in the house. 2-3 hours including tea break.
Ps I enjoyed the album title
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Soldato
Is there anymore news around from octopus on when the new flux rate will come out???
Man of Honour
Ok so re the fault, its not because of the mismatched MCB since it is not at the busbar end. It is due to the poor termination of the ring main. When cores are twisted they end up only making contact with the copper in the MCB at a few points, whereas if inserted side by side they will make contact along the full length. The ends should be untwisted, cut, stripped and re-inserted into the MCB assuming that the MCB is undamaged but it looks OK.
That's clearly a heavily loaded circuit, what is on it? What is on the spur (the third cable)? Could the spur be put on its own or another MCB to reduce total load on that circuit (good design)?
The board itself is fine but old, 15amp MCBs went a long time ago (anyone know the year?) A new RCBO board with SPDs (if required) would be a good investment. A split load board also OK and cheaper but you know the pros/cons. Stick with a good brand like Hager- you could source yourself and just pay labour to save a fair bit subject to how your sparky feels about that. Very easy job looking at the photos, load of room to work and plenty of slack on cables by taking the trunking back a bit. Just so long as testing doesn't throw up anything in the house. 2-3 hours including tea break.
Ps I enjoyed the album title
I love hearing from experts like you - always really interesting!
Soldato
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Ok so re the fault, its not because of the mismatched MCB since it is not at the busbar end. It is due to the poor termination of the ring main. When cores are twisted they end up only making contact with the copper in the MCB at a few points, whereas if inserted side by side they will make contact along the full length. The ends should be untwisted, cut, stripped and re-inserted into the MCB assuming that the MCB is undamaged but it looks OK.
That's clearly a heavily loaded circuit, what is on it? What is on the spur (the third cable)? Could the spur be put on its own or another MCB to reduce total load on that circuit (good design)?
The board itself is fine but old, 15amp MCBs went a long time ago (anyone know the year?) A new RCBO board with SPDs (if required) would be a good investment. A split load board also OK and cheaper but you know the pros/cons. Stick with a good brand like Hager- you could source yourself and just pay labour to save a fair bit subject to how your sparky feels about that. Very easy job looking at the photos, load of room to work and plenty of slack on cables by taking the trunking back a bit. Just so long as testing doesn't throw up anything in the house. 2-3 hours including tea break.
Ps I enjoyed the album title
Makes sense, the spark said he didn't think the fault was anywhere else in the house. Does seem a bit daft to twist the cables when there's ample space in that MCB. I did ask him if it was OK to leave it like that and he made the "neaaaahhhhh should be" noise, but I might see if I can get him back to untwist, restrip and flatten.
That circuit is the basement and ground floor ring main, as for the spur I have no clue. I suspect it's the garage sockets, I'll see if I can trace the cable as the consumer is in the garage on the basement level. There's space on the bar for another 3 modules by the looks of it, so splitting that spur, parts and the labour to fit and recable that would be a bit more palatable than £700 just before a solar install!
I read somewhere that "new Hagar is compatible with old Hagar, that's the great bit about them" is that true?
Really appreciate the thorough run down, and explanation. Assuming you're a spark by trade? If so, job's yours if you're passing
Soldato
Have you had the consumer unit tripping? I'm guessing that's your ovens, or some other high drain circuits all twisted in together. 
The cable looks like 2.5mm - no different to the ones connected to the 20a mcbs. So that 32A for the three combined isn't giving any protection for a single cable being overloaded - the cable will melt before it trips.
I'd want all those on their own dedicated mcb in a bigger, more suitably sized consumer unit.
Most modern MCBs fit the same sized rail - give or take a bit of a wiggle.
The cable looks like 2.5mm - no different to the ones connected to the 20a mcbs. So that 32A for the three combined isn't giving any protection for a single cable being overloaded - the cable will melt before it trips.
I'd want all those on their own dedicated mcb in a bigger, more suitably sized consumer unit.
Most modern MCBs fit the same sized rail - give or take a bit of a wiggle.
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