Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
The other thing I would add is I expect we will see some planning law relaxed in regards heat pumps (its going to have to be) and small wind generation.
Right now you can have a noisy as hell heat pump but as long as its a certain distance from the boundary thats fine, same with wind generation.
IMO they need to test the noise level from the boundary and set the limitations of that noise level. If things get old and knackered and noisy then they need fixing and should be able to be condemned like we would a faulty gas boiler.
It shouldn't matter if I have one or more heat pumps right on my boundary if its quiet enough that it doesn't not disturb my neighbours.

Same with domestic small scale wind. As long as its not noisy (or dangerous) then it should be able to be anywhere on my land. If it fails noise tests, again, condemn it.
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A couple of small things about noise.

In 2019 the rules on sound insulation changed for flats. When flats are completed they have to pass a sound test. Certain companies are registered to do this and the idea of not having to hear noisy neighbours is excellent. However the cost of adhering to the new standards can be as much as £20k/flat when you are undertaking a conversion and not building from scratch, and the tests themselves are not cheap. The Government are looking to replace building inspectors with certified competent people. Again the problem will be cost. Structural engineers have huge liability insurance and when presented with the same scenarios of 30 years ago, now require larger beams than they used to. We know who pays for the bigger beams.

Even if we went down the nosie control route, what are you going to do when the deaf old lady next door has a whining bearing in her heat pump? Hard to see anything happening if she just says it is not noisy.
 
Peteronthesouthcoast said:
A couple of small things about noise.

In 2019 the rules on sound insulation changed for flats. When flats are completed they have to pass a sound test. Certain companies are registered to do this and the idea of not having to hear noisy neighbours is excellent. However the cost of adhering to the new standards can be as much as £20k/flat when you are undertaking a conversion and not building from scratch, and the tests themselves are not cheap. The Government are looking to replace building inspectors with certified competent people. Again the problem will be cost. Structural engineers have huge liability insurance and when presented with the same scenarios of 30 years ago, now require larger beams than they used to. We know who pays for the bigger beams.

Even if we went down the nosie control route, what are you going to do when the deaf old lady next door has a whining bearing in her heat pump? Hard to see anything happening if she just says it is not noisy.
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i already said, just like domestic boilers have a heap of legislation that can lead to them being condemed you have legislation that allows heat pumps to be condemned if they are causing a nuisance, if sited on boundaries
Councils do noise disputes now
 
noisy heat pumps are almost always due to old worn out fans that any numpty could fit for a few £. Modern ones are basically silent these days.

If the compressor is whining, it’s about to lunch itself as it’s probably dumped all its oil/refrigerant.
 
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Peteronthesouthcoast said:
Whilst most of what MKW says is stuff I agree with, and that would include paying for solar excesses at a fair price, I am in favour of mixing hydrogen in gas boilers.

Solar is a very small player, the most expensive of renewables to install and run, but the real killer is that it is
A. unpredictable
B. Only works during daylight.
C. 70% of the energy it produces is between the spring and autumn equinoxes.

I have unsuccessfully lobbied the government to force new developments into providing more energy efficient homes. The regs only changed last summer and up to that point it was Ok to install rockwall in wall cavities. Further EPC's have not changed in 25 years and are flawed. One big problem is that they measure energy efficiency in a passive way. We have large patio doors on the south side of the house. This is judged by how much energy we lose through them. It complete ignores the 1kw of heat we get per square metre when the sun is shining, which has a significant impact on heating the house in the Autumn and Spring.

Equally unsuccessful was my attempt to get Hampshire County Council to set up a Wind farm offshore financed by the residents who could collectively find the money. For example if you pop down to Tesco's and buy a 8MW Wind turbine, this is about £8 million. Depending on where it was planted (in a farm), it would produce an average of 30-33% of the stated output. At 30% it will generate over £1million/year at 5p/kwh. Allow 20% for its fair share of installation and maintenance and we are left with a very neat return of just over 10%. Half of this could be paid back to the investors and the other half re-invested in long term renewables.

Back to hydrogen. Steel making is one of the most energy absorbing activities we all benefit from. see https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03699-0

We are all reliant on Hydrocarbons (and Putin knows this as well as anyone). If we tacked Climate Change in the same manner as Covid, there would be a lot more hope for our children and grand children.
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I guess I feel I live in a world different from many of the rest of you.

For the past 40 years we have been enjoying cheap energy and cheap goods from China.

We have criticised China for their pollution, a significant amount of which has been created by making goods we buy. 15 years ago the Chinese were bringing a coal burning power station on stream every week. Last year the Chinese built as many wind turbines as the whole of the rest of the world had in the previous 5 years. Meanwhile our "dumb government" has been acting in a similar manner to Nero in Rome in 64 AD. However making boilers which will accept 20 hydrogen is a green step that is better than nothing and also better than being distracted by solar. We absolutely need to build Wind Turbines (and other mainly water based green power sources) to produce 200% of today's electricity demand. We are the second most naturally rich country in Europe for making green electrcity. (Norway is first and exports electrcity) The surplus can be stored in double dams and turned to Hydrogen production. Hydrogen is the only fuel which is currently able to power HGV's which deliver all our food and goods to the shops. No, it will not be cheap or easy but we need to start asap.

Personally I have campaigned for a better future for our children.

Off topic we were the last country to ban asbestos in 1999. Why? The method and materials causing the fire at Grenfell were all approved despite being banned in the USA, Germany and Japan. Yet another example of twidling thumbs and saving money short term at the expense of future problems.

Those of us who live in a rich country, and are not poor, have a duty to lead. If solar is your only way to contribute and you can afford it, then why wait for the right price?

On noise..............the first noise abatement act was in 1960. 40 years ago I lived in London. I had a friend who lived in Hackney which was not the gentrified area then, that it is today. In response to repeated complaints about noise the local council set up a hot line. This was an answerphone. Despite phoning the hotline and chasing the matter up, no action was ever taken for my friend. I doubt things have got better. First rule of any regulation/law is that it has to be enforceable.
 
Just received an email from Ripple saying that their third project will be a solar farm as opposed to a wind farm. They've stated that the upfront costs are higher however the benefit is that a solar farm generally lasts longer than a wind farm - 40 years instead of 25 years.
 
I had an interested email today - for those looking for "bottom tier"/"rely on the regs to drive quality" consumers. I used these lads for a boiler, as they run a volume-based business they were untouchable quote-wise. They do then farm the work out to anyone with a certificate though, so quality could be hit or miss (much like most other trades nowadays!).

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I may take a punt as the surveyors are generally really high quality. It is the installers where they save the cost (farming out work to the lowest bidder essentially).
 
Ron-ski said:
Well they shot themselves in the foot there, told you one reason before getting your money, and now told you something else.

A: No, not a plonker and you have a very valid point, they are supposed to be experts, but have clearly got it wrong.
B: Push for the 5kW inverter, even if you are export limited there would be times you cn use the extra in the house.
C: The DNO point he raised is valid, BUT it varies a lot, and is dependant on the grid in your location. I have a 3.6kW system, had it since 2015, and have just installed another 8kW system, making an export potential of 11.6kW and I have been approved. If your rural with not many properties around then there is a good chance you'll be export limited, if your in a high density built up area there is less chance of being export limited. Until they or you apply you really have no idea. I initially kicked mine off with an email to the DNO but didn't really get answer, a phone call was much more productive.
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Here's the latest from the installer.

I feel like it's just masking the issue more than actually getting around the issue.

Looking at the data on the app I believe the best option would be for you to add an additional battery to your system so you will have the additional stored energy to use at peak times. going back on the graphs there are very few times where the load on the house has exceeded the available Solar PV.



However, we can apply to the DNO for a G99 application for a 5kw inverter. This can take up to 6 weeks to come back. This will tell us if they will allow for additional export back to the grid from your property before looking in to this option further.
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NoNameNoNumber said:
Here's the latest from the installer.

I feel like it's just masking the issue more than actually getting around the issue.
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how will an additional battery use the additional power gained from the panels, if the inverter is only 3.6kws.......so if your panels are pulling 5kws from the sun and the inverter is 3.6kws, how will the additional 1.4kws be used if the inverter cant handle it
 
I would say consider both
Battery based on whether it makes sense to be able to use more stored energy
But also 100% a G99 application

You really need to know as well what sort of £ they are going to want if you get approval for a larger inverter.
I believe every inverter sold in the UK must be capable of being export limited if its above the 3.68 anyway.

Any nearby neightbours with decent size arrays? If so and if they are allowed to export higher chances are you would secure approval as well.
 
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I'm getting 5.1kwh panels on South East roof and a 10kwh battery installed, there isn't any room for more panels, they have quoted a 3.68kwh invertor which is dno acceptable under a g98. If I went with a 5kwh invertor it would be an extra £150 and require a g99 and could be refused to export by the dno.

I questioned it with them they said it's my call they can upsize it, but will then need a G99 submitted and can't make connection until accepted. With additional risk that could be rejected or upgrade works required on the network. I'm only 4 weeks away from an install date and don't want to delay it.

Looking about on the web undersizing the invertor should allow it to be more efficient when not generating so much sunlight. Also to get optimum conditions with sun/heat atmospheric conditions the panels shouldn't be outputting at 5.1 too often.

Is it worth pursuing or leaving as is?

Tia
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I would say consider both
Battery based on whether it makes sense to be able to use more stored energy
But also 100% a G99 application

You really need to know as well what sort of £ they are going to want if you get approval for a larger array.
I believe every inverter sold in the UK must be capable of being export limited if its above the 3.68 anyway.

Any nearby neightbours with decent size arrays? If so and if they are allowed to export higher chances are you would secure approval as well.
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if im right he's not asking for a bigger array, but a bigger inverter, as his power is being clipped after 3.6kws
 
@benbird7 Get them to put the application in, it may get turned quickly, if it isn't allowed then you can still install 3.6kW of even the 5kW but it will need to be export limited to 3.6kw. If the battery can discharge/charge at 5kW then it may make more sense to have the bigger inverter and export limit if required.

@NoNameNoNumber get them to submit the G99 and see what comes back, another battery may will make sense as well, I think the same as above applies as well, bigger inverter means you can charge quicker in off peak periods in the winter.
 
benbird7 said:
I'm getting 5.1kwh panels on South East roof and a 10kwh battery installed, there isn't any room for more panels, they have quoted a 3.68kwh invertor which is dno acceptable under a g98. If I went with a 5kwh invertor it would be an extra £150 and require a g99 and could be refused to export by the dno.

I questioned it with them they said it's my call they can upsize it, but will then need a G99 submitted and can't make connection until accepted. With additional risk that could be rejected or upgrade works required on the network. I'm only 4 weeks away from an install date and don't want to delay it.

Looking about on the web undersizing the invertor should allow it to be more efficient when not generating so much sunlight. Also to get optimum conditions with sun/heat atmospheric conditions the panels shouldn't be outputting at 5.1 too often.

Is it worth pursuing or leaving as is?

Tia
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Best go with the bigger inverter - it's worthwhile. You will need a G99 - but once you have that then you can upgrade your inverter in due course if ever you need to. Or if ever you can get better panels (the tech is always getting better). Don't cheap out on the inverter it'll hold you back in the long term.

Being able to get the full "bandwidth" of your electricity makes sense for the extra cost.
 
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Ron-ski said:
@benbird7 Get them to put the application in, it may get turned quickly, if it isn't allowed then you can still install 3.6kW of even the 5kW but it will need to be export limited to 3.6kw. If the battery can discharge/charge at 5kW then it may make more sense to have the bigger inverter and export limit if required.

@NoNameNoNumber get them to submit the G99 and see what comes back, another battery may will make sense as well, I think the same as above applies as well, bigger inverter means you can charge quicker in off peak periods in the winter.
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Thanks for the replies all, the battery is a luna2000 so does support up to 5kw, i've emailed and asked them to get a G99 submitted and change to a 5kw invertor. I'll regret it after if i don't, may as well make the most of what I can generate.

5.1kw panels
5kw invertor and
5kw charge/discharge rate of the battery.

Everything then will (as long as approved) run at it's full potential and as you say if solar panels became more efficient it would allow me to change or add more PV to the garage roof at a later date.

Tyvm.
 
benbird7 said:
Thanks for the replies all, the battery is a luna2000 so does support up to 5kw, i've emailed and asked them to get a G99 submitted and change to a 5kw invertor. I'll regret it after if i don't, may as well make the most of what I can generate.

5.1kw panels
5kw invertor and
5kw charge/discharge rate of the battery.

Everything then will (as long as approved) run at it's full potential and as you say if solar panels became more efficient it would allow me to change or add more PV to the garage roof at a later date.

Tyvm.
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Is the 3.6kW inverter the Sunsynk one? If so then it has a MPPT of 7.2kW and a larger inverter shouldn't be necessary if you have battery storage.
 
Scottm said:
Is the 3.6kW inverter the Sunsynk one? If so then it has a MPPT of 7.2kW and a larger inverter shouldn't be necessary if you have battery storage.
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No it's a Huawei SUN2000-3.68KTL-1 (v1) invertor.

It'll be connected to 13no JAM54S31-395/MR (v1) 395w panels (5 and 8 on two strings) and a Huawei LUNA2000-10-S0 (v4) 10kw battery.

I've not gone for optimisers as they couldn't get hold of them and have no real shading on my roof.
 
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Bug One said:
Yes, fitted it myself. Probably shouldn't have - but wasn't particularly difficult. Just waiting on an extra bit of trim for the trunking and some more appropriate cable for the grounding cable.

SolisRAIPylon.jpg
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Hi Are you still happy with your Solis inverter? I'm about to push the button on one and a Fogstar rack battery to store up some of the solar I have been giving away for peanuts to the grid.
 
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