The givenergy system is really not restrictive like you are making out.
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Especially if you use HA - you don't even need their servers for access ( although I think their portal is very comprehensive).
Soldato
It's not, but it's also no where near what Victron is capable of. The AIO also seem to have had issues, it also appears to rely on the Giv energy portal, as do a lot of other systems I suspect.
The flip side is Victron can be quite complicated if you're not of the right mindset, which also applies to HA - I find it horribly complicated yet I can easily write code for my Victron system.
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Really you can automate everything with givenergy and not just with HA either (so the 'too restrictive' comments made little sense to me), integration with octopus R&D is available out of the box and if one wishes even full control via intelligent flux which during summer months will see good gains over regular flux. I've only seen the giv portal down once for maintenance and that was overnight, the octopus integration with agile still worked though so doesn't seem to rely on it.
Soldato
Don't get me wrong it is very capable, but for certain folk the flexibility, upgradability, and integration you can achieve is way above what is on offer. I hope it continues to improve, but it is a very long term commitment, and there is no harm in checking out all of the options, especially when spending £16k+. I also think people are forgetting just how cheap a solar panel, inverter and batteries is now, 435w panels are £75, an 8kW inverter is ~£750, and the GivAIO system is ~£5k, prices have tumbled and are continuing to fall daily, so having £16k to spend would get you a heck of a Victron setup as well.
I get that something like Victron is very powerful and we are a forum full of nerds who like to play with hardware.
However that’s not the only consideration and I’m not going to be the only one using it. Mrs Sk8 is certainly the most intelligent person in the household but she has zero interest, wants something that looks reasonably familiar and just works with the least amount of effort possible.
It’s the age old 2010’s iPhone vs Android debate. Yes android was more powerful and you could do a lot more with it if you were willing to get into the weeds of customisation. However what 99% of people actually want is something they can press a few buttons on a pretty GUI and never have to think about ever again.
To be fair, the days of me fully nerding out are long gone and I’ve not got any inclination to be writing code these days. Yes I do some nerdy stuff, I’ve got a Ubiquiti network, Unraid NAS and have home assistant running on a api but in reality, if it goes beyond the basic GUI/web interface, I’m probably not doing it.
My home assistant stuff basically consists of some very basic if this then do that automations.
However that’s not the only consideration and I’m not going to be the only one using it. Mrs Sk8 is certainly the most intelligent person in the household but she has zero interest, wants something that looks reasonably familiar and just works with the least amount of effort possible.
It’s the age old 2010’s iPhone vs Android debate. Yes android was more powerful and you could do a lot more with it if you were willing to get into the weeds of customisation. However what 99% of people actually want is something they can press a few buttons on a pretty GUI and never have to think about ever again.
To be fair, the days of me fully nerding out are long gone and I’ve not got any inclination to be writing code these days. Yes I do some nerdy stuff, I’ve got a Ubiquiti network, Unraid NAS and have home assistant running on a api but in reality, if it goes beyond the basic GUI/web interface, I’m probably not doing it.
My home assistant stuff basically consists of some very basic if this then do that automations.
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Soldato
I know people that have no idea how to even charge batteries off peak, and as for a saving session, also no idea. Fit and forget is what most do.
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Soldato
Putting plans together to maybe have a new hybrid inverter fitted next year and battery. looking at a 3.6kw hybrid inverter, that can take 6.6kw of panels. 3.2 on the roof and 3.2 on the man cave down the garden. Dual mppt so can take two strings of 8….. its looking like hybrid inverter, battery and fitting is just over 3k….plus i would need to fit 4 extra panels on the man cave roof to go with four i already got.
thoughts???
thoughts???
Caporegime
I’d have thought you’d want the capability to use as much of the 6+kW of PV as possible?
We’ve got 5.6kW of PV and a 5kW inverter.
We’ve got 5.6kW of PV and a 5kW inverter.
Are they all in the same direction, guessing the man cave ones will be a shallower angle?
If so, maybe a 5kW/6 inverter would be better subject to any DNO limitations.
Soldato
Man cave will be 20deg angle and pure south, roof is ever so slightly southeast as per signature……
also want to keep costs to a minimum.
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Soldato
@Welshman What inverter and battery you thinking of using?
Soldato
Possibly the growatt hybrid 3.6
Growatt SPH3600 Hybrid + 3.3kWh Battery Storage Bundle (Installation included) - L&R Renewables
KEY FEATURES: Compact design Local graphical LCD and 4 buttons Support export control Wide PV voltage range Dual MPP trackers Programmable working modes Smart battery management Online smart service IP65 & natural cooling Support backup function 10 Year warranty PRICE INCLUDES...
lr-renewables.co.uk
Soldato
We moved on to Flux export early April this year, and I've just worked out our gas and electric costs since 1st April to 5th December, its minus £852 
That includes, standing charges, gas, imported & exported electric, one referral, FITS payments and saving sessions in that period.
That includes, standing charges, gas, imported & exported electric, one referral, FITS payments and saving sessions in that period.
The cost between a 5kw and a 3.6kw inverter is negligible in the grand scheme of things. Fit the biggest the DNO will allow, id probably go for the 5kw regardless even if you have to put a 3.6 export limit on it if you are using batteries that will benefit from the higher power inverter.
Don’t forget if it has an export limit, that doesn’t mean your maximum output is limited, just what’s going back to the grid and your house will be using some of it. So if you are producing >3.6kw, put the washing on, fill the batteries, plug in an EV if you have one etc etc.
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You'd probably recoup the difference very quickly with the extra battery export capacity during these saving sessions. Although if you are fitting that 3.3kWh battery you wont have the extra capacity to take advantage.
Soldato
We all got to start somewhere……. Im a start small and build on to it kind of guy when the money is available. If it aint available, you cant have it.
one of the key things for me this year, is to see how the new panels perform during peak season. Only fitted them end of october, so not had much out of them yet….just under 100kwhs so far, they unusable for 3 mths of the year…..they will prob start producing again early to mid february.
Then once they got moved onto the new roof of the man cave they still be out of use dec/jan each year…
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Caporegime
This is why I started small with batteries (4.9kW), but made sure that I bought modular so I could add more as and when. I’m going to add another 2.45kW module early in the new year (taking me up to 9.8kW), but adding batteries is trivial, swapping out the inverter would involve downtime, buying a replacement (rather than additional) and then having an old inverter to do something with.
I’d sacrifice initial battery capacity to get a larger inverter, and add more capacity at a later date if initial outlay is the concern.
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How much price difference would there be to go for a 5kWh Inverter? Like @paradigm says, later on changing an inverter is more of a PITA than changing or adding batteries.
I do agree you have to start somewhere, but also, you have to call it a day somewhere too. Otherwise, it would be, "A 3.6 is completely fine for my needs.... although how much is the 5? well if I'm going for a 5, I might as well get the 6, hang on, what the hell, I'll get the 8kWh one.
It all adds up, and you can only spend it once.
Soldato
@Welshman I also think you'd be better off getting a bigger inverter, its the one piece that is a major pain to change. Choose wisely and batteries can very easily be added at a later date, there are some very good batteries available at exceptional prices now.
Anybody going for a ground mount, I came across this adjustable system whilst watching Youtube https://www.solar-frames.co.uk/product-range
It basically uses a system similar to Key Clamps, so most parts a readily available.
Anybody going for a ground mount, I came across this adjustable system whilst watching Youtube https://www.solar-frames.co.uk/product-range
It basically uses a system similar to Key Clamps, so most parts a readily available.
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