Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

[Deep]

I think my biggest worry is getting conned with shoddy products and poor workmanship.
It's why I was going for a Which rated supplier, one of the first things they said on the phone was they don't like to deal with Chinese products and are very particular about which brands they use.

If I could find a very highly rated installer in my area then I would be happy to go elsewhere using the information from above.

 

[tamzzy]

@Deep

@oggiet i can recommend spectra solar, they're based in wigan but they install country-wide
they installed my pv system and i've recommended them to others in the past
very reasonable prices as well

@Pyr0m@nI@]{ has also got a battery installed by them as well
@Ace Modder was looking to get a system installed by them, not sure if he has though

 

[Deep]

@Deep

Brill
I'll give them a bell today and get them to give me a quote

 

[darkblade]

I've been getting quotes for a PV install on the garage roof, and while PV seems to be reasonably cost effective, the battery storage doesn't seem to be there yet and is why I've been looking at "3rd party batteries"

PV Only (6.8 kWp system):
Panels: 16 x Perlight Delta 425w
Inverter: Growatt MIN 6000 TL-X Dual MPPT
Tigo Optimisers (I have shading from a tree)
£6,444

PV and Battery (PV as above, plus):
GivEnergy 13.5kWh All in One
£13,320 (an extra £6,876)

I've then asked a local MCS electrician who does PV and Battery storage installs, to quote for PV and two 15kWh Fogstar batteries (link).
I even provided him with the detailed quote for the above.

I'm struggling to make sense of his reply:

"We have chosen to go for Alpha ESS due to not many inverters can charge the battery from PV solar at the same time. Alpha ESS battery can go up to 60kWh of storage with one inverter.​

​

With Fogstar we can only charge one PV solar unless we go for standard string only inverter for garage PV solar system and separate inverter for battery charger and it will not be cost effective due to, we had to install PV solar consumer unit to allow for battery inverter to monitor both PV in same time."​

I have an existing 3kWh PV system on the house roof, which I was under the impression is best to leave stand-alone (it was fitted in 2017 under the old FIT generation tarriff). So I'm not expecting it to charge the storage batteries (or provide power during an outage), but it will reduce grid demand during the day.
The garage PV and storage system is expected to be grid tied, and will provide power in the event of a power cut.

Anyone else able to make sense of the above?!

Interestingly, as I type this, the installer for the system quoted above are looking to see if they can utilise the Fogstar batteries, but might have to switch to a SolarEdge Inverter.

I'll keep you posted on this.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I think my biggest worry is getting conned with shoddy products and poor workmanship.
It's why I was going for a Which rated supplier, one of the first things they said on the phone was they don't like to deal with Chinese products and are very particular about which brands they use.

If I could find a very highly rated installer in my area then I would be happy to go elsewhere using the information from above.

China lead the way on solar panels and battery cells. It is what it is on that front. Pretty much all of it is manufactured in China at some point in the supply chain. Sordtware and support is more varied e.g. GivEnergy is a U.K. company.

I get the want to avoid dodgy workmanship but I’m sure there is more than one reputable supplier in your area.

 

[Journey]

I think my biggest worry is getting conned with shoddy products and poor workmanship.
It's why I was going for a Which rated supplier, one of the first things they said on the phone was they don't like to deal with Chinese products and are very particular about which brands they use.

If I could find a very highly rated installer in my area then I would be happy to go elsewhere using the information from above.

And what protection are Which giving you if their supplier turns out to be rubbish?

I linked a quote from E.on for you, 3 years 0%, cheaper, with GivEnergy equipment, so UK support.

Good luck avoiding Chinese products.

 

[maddness]

I've been getting quotes for a PV install on the garage roof, and while PV seems to be reasonably cost effective, the battery storage doesn't seem to be there yet and is why I've been looking at "3rd party batteries"

PV Only (6.8 kWp system):
Panels: 16 x Perlight Delta 425w
Inverter: Growatt MIN 6000 TL-X Dual MPPT
Tigo Optimisers (I have shading from a tree)
£6,444

PV and Battery (PV as above, plus):
GivEnergy 13.5kWh All in One
£13,320 (an extra £6,876)

I've then asked a local MCS electrician who does PV and Battery storage installs, to quote for PV and two 15kWh Fogstar batteries (link).
I even provided him with the detailed quote for the above.

I'm struggling to make sense of his reply:

"We have chosen to go for Alpha ESS due to not many inverters can charge the battery from PV solar at the same time. Alpha ESS battery can go up to 60kWh of storage with one inverter.​

​

With Fogstar we can only charge one PV solar unless we go for standard string only inverter for garage PV solar system and separate inverter for battery charger and it will not be cost effective due to, we had to install PV solar consumer unit to allow for battery inverter to monitor both PV in same time."​

I have an existing 3kWh PV system on the house roof, which I was under the impression is best to leave stand-alone (it was fitted in 2017 under the old FIT generation tarriff). So I'm not expecting it to charge the storage batteries (or provide power during an outage), but it will reduce grid demand during the day.
The garage PV and storage system is expected to be grid tied, and will provide power in the event of a power cut.

Anyone else able to make sense of the above?!

Interestingly, as I type this, the installer for the system quoted above are looking to see if they can utilise the Fogstar batteries, but might have to switch to a SolarEdge Inverter.

I'll keep you posted on this.

that quote is ridiculous you can get that for around 8-8.5k fully installed and comissioned, mcs dno heis'd up (i'd estimate with additional panels you want) from he suppliers who installed mine -

Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?

You'll pay 20% VAT on battery without solar panels installed with it. You'll still need an inverter. Someone will have to install it. May need DNO application if it can export. Reliant on a cheap off-peak tariff always existing that you can get onto. To some degree here you may as well just...

forums.overclockers.co.uk

i have 12panels, 13.5giv battery 5kw inverter and 6 tigos, all wiring and the parts, cabling and the unit that goes at the meter

they said any addional panels fully installed will be £130 a pop, tigo were £40 a pop, i have a chimney so we agreed 6 to be on the safe side

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Just worked out I have almost hit 25% recovery of capital as of end of June.
My system was installed end of Nov 22.

I am sitting at 24.7% recovery of capital amount.
Now this is based on standard tariff, I can't say for sure if I would have gone tracker or not so just sticking with standard.
On the contra side, there are times I use cheap elec to heat water now which I wouldn't have done without the control panel that was installed with my diverter (not used now) so I think its a reasonable balance.
If I am slightly over egging the savings based on standard tariff, its not going to be much anyway.

Interesting is that the months don't vary that much in regards savings.
Of course summer generates more, but in winter I save a lot of money from cheap units, and get a load from Saving sessions, that again I would probably have achieved a small saving from without solar, but it would be negligible.

It wasn't purely financial for me, I wanted to offset some of my flying etc. But its important to pay back as well.

 

[father-ted]

@Deep

Thanks for this, I have requested a quote from them

 

[father-ted]

Thanks for this, I have requested a quote from them

Any other companies we should be getting a quote from - in the York area?

 

[Ron-ski]

I've then asked a local MCS electrician who does PV and Battery storage installs, to quote for PV and two 15kWh Fogstar batteries (link).
I even provided him with the detailed quote for the above.

I'm struggling to make sense of his reply:
"We have chosen to go for Alpha ESS due to not many inverters can charge the battery from PV solar at the same time. Alpha ESS battery can go up to 60kWh of storage with one inverter.With Fogstar we can only charge one PV solar unless we go for standard string only inverter for garage PV solar system and separate inverter for battery charger and it will not be cost effective due to, we had to install PV solar consumer unit to allow for battery inverter to monitor both PV in same time."
I have an existing 3kWh PV system on the house roof, which I was under the impression is best to leave stand-alone (it was fitted in 2017 under the old FIT generation tarriff). So I'm not expecting it to charge the storage batteries (or provide power during an outage), but it will reduce grid demand during the day.
The garage PV and storage system is expected to be grid tied, and will provide power in the event of a power cut.

Anyone else able to make sense of the above?!

Interestingly, as I type this, the installer for the system quoted above are looking to see if they can utilise the Fogstar batteries, but might have to switch to a SolarEdge Inverter.

I'll keep you posted on this.

The reason you are struggling to make sense of his reply is because he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about!

Pretty much any hybrid inverter that uses nominal 48v battery system will be able to make use of those Fogstar batteries. The Pace BMS used in those batteries supports a multitude of inverters, and often the inverter can be set to talk a different protocol to match one of the ones in the batteries if not.

There are some complications, some inverter manufactures will not cover you under warranty if you don't use their "approved" battery manufactures, I also believe (not totally sure) that MCS stipulate that most things used in the installation must be certified by MCS (another of their money grabs - they don't get certified for free).

Now considering you have a FITS system, you already have an MCS certificate, you don't need another if you get my drift

Its best to leave you're original FITS system alone, they can be altered but you need someone that knows what they are doing, and knows the paper work. It certainly can be used to charge the batteries on the garage system, that's exactly what I do with mine. Its actually very easy, you just need to install the correct equipment @Oldman2 has a 2012 FITS system, and installed a hybrid inverter and batteries (from Fogstar) in his garage, he didn't need to touch his original system either, his PV charges his batteries via his Solis Hybrid inverter (no solar connected to this inverter).

My system provides whole house back up, and in the event of grid failure my FITS system will keep running, both system will throttle down if house demand is lower than PV generation and the batteries are full. If you want whole house back up then its far more complicated than just having a couple of sockets for emergency power, if thats all you have then in a power cut the FITS PV system will shut down.

No idea why they would need to use SolarEdge to make use of the Fogstar batteries, they then need to fit optimisers, which makes for an expensive system, plenty of other inverters available.

 

[Journey]

No idea why they would need to use SolarEdge to make use of the Fogstar batteries, they then need to fit optimisers, which makes for an expensive system, plenty of other inverters available.

They need to use it as they don't have the foggiest what to do properly with a solar PV system, see what I did there?

 

[darkblade]

The reason you are struggling to make sense of his reply is because he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about!

Pretty much any hybrid inverter that uses nominal 48v battery system will be able to make use of those Fogstar batteries. The Pace BMS used in those batteries supports a multitude of inverters, and often the inverter can be set to talk a different protocol to match one of the ones in the batteries if not.

There are some complications, some inverter manufactures will not cover you under warranty if you don't use their "approved" battery manufactures, I also believe (not totally sure) that MCS stipulate that most things used in the installation must be certified by MCS (another of their money grabs - they don't get certified for free).

Now considering you have a FITS system, you already have an MCS certificate, you don't need another if you get my drift

Its best to leave you're original FITS system alone, they can be altered but you need someone that knows what they are doing, and knows the paper work. It certainly can be used to charge the batteries on the garage system, that's exactly what I do with mine. Its actually very easy, you just need to install the correct equipment @Oldman2 has a 2012 FITS system, and installed a hybrid inverter and batteries (from Fogstar) in his garage, he didn't need to touch his original system either, his PV charges his batteries via his Solis Hybrid inverter (no solar connected to this inverter).

My system provides whole house back up, and in the event of grid failure my FITS system will keep running, both system will throttle down if house demand is lower than PV generation and the batteries are full. If you want whole house back up then its far more complicated than just having a couple of sockets for emergency power, if thats all you have then in a power cut the FITS PV system will shut down.

No idea why they would need to use SolarEdge to make use of the Fogstar batteries, they then need to fit optimisers, which makes for an expensive system, plenty of other inverters available.

There's MCS certification for Solar and another for battery storage. If you use a pre-MCS-certified battery, the certification paperwork is much simpler. For batteries that don't have existing MCS certification, it is possible for an MCS installer to test the battery and submit paperwork, effectively self-certification. MCS aren't massive fans of this, but they will accept it apparently.
When you say optimisers, do you mean for the PV panels? They work out at £35 / panel, so it's not a significant cost.

 

[tamzzy]

Any other companies we should be getting a quote from - in the York area?

Ask @maddness his installation seems pretty bang on for the money too

 

[Ron-ski]

There's MCS certification for Solar and another for battery storage. If you use a pre-MCS-certified battery, the certification paperwork is much simpler. For batteries that don't have existing MCS certification, it is possible for an MCS installer to test the battery and submit paperwork, effectively self-certification. MCS aren't massive fans of this, but they will accept it apparently.
When you say optimisers, do you mean for the PV panels? They work out at £35 / panel, so it's not a significant cost.

As I thought then. MCS is just about making money for itself, my electrician was originally going for MCS but has scrapped the idea, just far too much paperwork and cost involved. The sooner they get rid of MCS the better, its not required, just makes it easier to get paid for export, and if you get an issue they are no help whatsoever. MCS is also involved in Heatpumps and they cause problems their as well.

Not bad, but are the installers going to charge £35 per optimiser?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Guys have just been out to fix my birdblocker and said they could see nests in there. I knew it was likely one but its obviously hard to see from ground level.

Their suggestion was if it happens again was to call pest control, as "the pigeons learn to break in"
Well the point of having it was to stop them getting underneath, if it fails to do that its not really fit for purpose is it!?

 

[Oldman2]

My bird mesh has been up since 2015, its galvanised 20mm square mesh and unless they have bolt croppers, no pigeon is getting under there. The mesh is held in place with twisted wire fixings. The house sparrows have managed to get inside it but they are not a real pest, just 1-2 nests a season.
I would suggest the materials they used are not fit for the job and they are making excuses.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

My bird mesh has been up since 2015, its galvanised 20mm square mesh and unless they have bolt croppers, no pigeon is getting under there. The mesh is held in place with twisted wire fixings. The house sparrows have managed to get inside it but they are not a real pest, just 1-2 nests a season.
I would suggest the materials they used are not fit for the job and they are making excuses.

Birdblocker is a product. Which is what I have.

birdblocker-nuxt

BirdBlocker protects solar panels

birdblocker.com

 

[Ron-ski]

How had they actually got under the panels?

Was bird blocker missing, or had they managed to push the fingers apart?

I've got some plastic mesh fencing left from when I previously did my panels, I'll be using that amount with some proper clips on my new panels.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

They got under down one side.
Where the blocker is attached and has to go round the ends of the frame.

What had happened is that one part was "peeled back" so they could get under.
My suspicion is when it was clipped on the clip wasn't quite clicked into place.
They are attached with small stainless clips.
I only know as I found one some time ago. I had assumed it was one they dropped when installing but looking back now its pretty much certain it was the one that came off. (Found it below where the gap was)
As such it clearly pinged off, not just fell off as if it just fell off it would have been into the gutter.

I'm not sure if there was more than one "break" in protection. He went to the top of the roof when the problem part was only just up from the bottom. Maybe just for a look.
He used new clip(s) and some cable ties so I think it should be good for now.

I don't think they could push the fingers apart and your supposed to join each part of the mesh to the bit next to it, so maybe that wasn't done. If that had of been done I think it would still have been in place.
Suspect thats why they join them so if a clip fails you should still maintain full protection.

My suspicion is it was wind just caught it somehow and pinged the clip off.

No way I can see the top, unless I use my drone, but I will keep an eye out in future for any issues on the sides and bottom.