Soldato
You have no idea if the installation was done correctly either way, plenty of MCS registered cowboys about, you'll have someone to blame if things go south, well that is until they disappear.
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Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Fact is most buyers would probably prefer an install done by a proper accredited person or company than a DIY. I'm just highlighting how far from adding value it could do the opposite. As said, not worth it if selling in a few years.
Soldato
@200sols I agree, and your average buyer would presume a certified installer would do a good job, but we know that isn't always the case.
Also agree it's not worth it if selling in a few years.
Also agree it's not worth it if selling in a few years.
Soldato
It's a great way to fear monger though and have more people pay out for more insurance for something else that either is part of the house or isn't. I mean at some point in time are they going to ask for indemnity when you plumb in an outdoor tap, or a washing machine? Why do I even have buildings insurance? I paid a roofer to install some panels, why do they need to have MCS rubbish, it's total crap.
Soldato
Its impossible to say. In both cases, but probability will tell you a "professional" installer will likely get it right most of the time. Its complete pot luck with a DIY job.
Its not just your house but public liability, what if that self install comes off and kills someone. I bet that would be a fun blame game...
Things don't always go wrong immediately. Eg incorrect fixings can fail over time, lack of penetration into joists, maybe a slow leak that rots the local wood etc.
I agree with the sentiment that a DIY job can be just as good. I know from first hand experience that trades have commented on things I have done with no idea who did them.
But there are also DIYers who are absolute bodgers.
Many what ifs for sure.
I think there is the potential for good and bad with solar installs and I wouldn't be doing one if I was planning on moving soon.
Associate
I own and use my torque wrenches so that should probably put me above 80% of the "professional" installers
Solicitors will expect an MCS certificate (or the other one who’s name I’ve forgot) for any installation of PV alongside the usual electrical certificates, FIT or not.
It’s on their list of standard questions now. Expect paperwork problems and tetchy buyers when you have to reveal it was a self install.
Also are Octopus even accepting people without MCS? Their SEG pages suggest MCS is required for PV.
It’s on their list of standard questions now. Expect paperwork problems and tetchy buyers when you have to reveal it was a self install.
Also are Octopus even accepting people without MCS? Their SEG pages suggest MCS is required for PV.
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Associate
Yes, seems it's sufficiently prevalent that octopus warrants the effort to trial it. Could indicate a industry shift away from needing MCS.
No MCS Certificate Application Form
Application for export customers with no MCS or equivalent certification
octopus.typeform.com
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Soldato
My electrician is also solar installer, he gave up on MCS because he saw it for what it is, a sham, many electricians have dropped MCS, just pop over to the electricians forum and ask their opinion. Go on, have read of that link., it's interesting.
Are you saying that all his customers are going to have issues because they used a fully qualified electrician? DNO do not require MCS, building control don't require MCS, in fact even the energy companies are happy to benefit from your free electricity, wonder why they need MCS? They don't, just an excuse to benefit from free electricity from those that didn't use the sacred MCS installer.
MCS is even causing issues with heat pump installations.
I used so called professionals to build the shell of my extension to watertight, it was a catalogue of problems, foundations wrong, floor slabs wrong, roof pitch wrong, windows wrong. Most people wouldn't know about most of it.
There's a very good reason why I only use trades when I absolutely have to.
Oh yes, there are people who think they can DIY, but they really shouldn't, especially electrics.
PS My electrician installed solar on his own house and gets paid for export, after he pointed out he is fully qualified and MCS isn't required for anything really.
Are you saying that all his customers are going to have issues because they used a fully qualified electrician? DNO do not require MCS, building control don't require MCS, in fact even the energy companies are happy to benefit from your free electricity, wonder why they need MCS? They don't, just an excuse to benefit from free electricity from those that didn't use the sacred MCS installer.
MCS is even causing issues with heat pump installations.
I used so called professionals to build the shell of my extension to watertight, it was a catalogue of problems, foundations wrong, floor slabs wrong, roof pitch wrong, windows wrong. Most people wouldn't know about most of it.
There's a very good reason why I only use trades when I absolutely have to.
Oh yes, there are people who think they can DIY, but they really shouldn't, especially electrics.
PS My electrician installed solar on his own house and gets paid for export, after he pointed out he is fully qualified and MCS isn't required for anything really.
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@Ron-ski i don’t think any of us disagree on the merits of MCS, or lack there of.
It’s more just the practical realities of not having a MCS certificate for people who are not enthusiasts in July 2024.
Couple that with the prospect of selling up in the very near future and the headaches that’s going to cause with buyers lawyers down the line due to the lack of said certificate.
A buyer may even come back and chip their offer down because of the certification issue (I’d defo try). To a ‘normal person’ the system doesn’t have the same value as a system with MCS because they can’t just sign up to their supplier of choice for export as things stand in July 2024.
It’s more just the practical realities of not having a MCS certificate for people who are not enthusiasts in July 2024.
Couple that with the prospect of selling up in the very near future and the headaches that’s going to cause with buyers lawyers down the line due to the lack of said certificate.
A buyer may even come back and chip their offer down because of the certification issue (I’d defo try). To a ‘normal person’ the system doesn’t have the same value as a system with MCS because they can’t just sign up to their supplier of choice for export as things stand in July 2024.
Soldato
I get what you're saying, and agree for the most part, I wouldn't advise going non MCS if exporting was a major factor, but seems plenty are happy to, whether that is lack of knowledge or choice I don't know.
How much it will affect a house sale, I've no idea, if the owner is being paid for export then it shouldn't be problem, but of course could be.
How much it will affect a house sale, I've no idea, if the owner is being paid for export then it shouldn't be problem, but of course could be.
Soldato
As long as you have the calcs for the roof, an NICEIC, DNO approval and the MPAN (get through octopus once approved) It won’t be a problem when selling. That is the professional advice I received.
I DIY most of my system and it’s pretty big. I think it saved me around 7k. Albeit I did it on a roof ladder…a little sketchy at times.
I DIY most of my system and it’s pretty big. I think it saved me around 7k. Albeit I did it on a roof ladder…a little sketchy at times.
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Soldato
I've got scaffolding and a pulley wheel to winch them up.
Due to the scaffolding arrangement I don't think it would be possible to carry them up, too many things to hit, and I'm not going to even attempt it. Rope and pulley makes things much easier.
Apparently carrying them up can cause micro cracks, no idea how true that is though.
Due to the scaffolding arrangement I don't think it would be possible to carry them up, too many things to hit, and I'm not going to even attempt it. Rope and pulley makes things much easier.
Apparently carrying them up can cause micro cracks, no idea how true that is though.
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Soldato
MCS isn't required its a shortcut to the relevant (iirc) ISO standard.
As MCS requires the ISO standard to be met its a convenient shortcut.
MCS like so many of these things are a joke.
It shouldn't be a problem is more correct.
Having seen the things solicitors will argue about any time you deviate from the standard expect potential issues.
Which was my point all along.
Many things are valued based on perception. Simply in 2024 for the majority the perception a self install will be sketchy compared to a "professional" install.
Eg who helps the householder if something seems wrong after they take on the system.
As MCS requires the ISO standard to be met its a convenient shortcut.
MCS like so many of these things are a joke.
It shouldn't be a problem is more correct.
Having seen the things solicitors will argue about any time you deviate from the standard expect potential issues.
Which was my point all along.
Many things are valued based on perception. Simply in 2024 for the majority the perception a self install will be sketchy compared to a "professional" install.
Eg who helps the householder if something seems wrong after they take on the system.
Soldato
In regards to your last paragraph, who helps the householder should the professional installer have disappeared? Although in theory it should be easier to find someone to help if it's a professional install, although the decent installers know just how bad some of the professional installs are.
Its certainly going to be interesting how things develop with regards to selling properties with sketchy installs, DIY or professional.
That's one reason why I'm paying a solar electrician to connect my new panels.
Its certainly going to be interesting how things develop with regards to selling properties with sketchy installs, DIY or professional.
That's one reason why I'm paying a solar electrician to connect my new panels.
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Soldato
You took up the panels on the roof using laddersI'm sure they were 20kg a pop
On the scaffolding side it was a 1 man job, on the rear it was a 2 man jobbie (no scaffolding)
7bc4b413-fb86-4a24-9954-318da9e78634 hosted at ImgBB
Image 7bc4b413-fb86-4a24-9954-318da9e78634 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co
Yarp..check out my face on that photo, ha. My brother walked some up the ladder to me but some were passed on the balcony. I managed to put 25 up there. Space for another 35 or so but probably won’t go any further, this is sufficient and it gets addictive!!
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Soldato
Its not an easy answer. A lot will depend on how and why they disappeared as ever with a business.
Best scenario for client is that the business is sold out and a new business takes over. Often happens.
Worst case is they are uber dodgy and just disappear.
There is of course overlap. The best scenario being a professional install where everything is best in class and they have longevity.
The worst case is a dodgy DIY install.
But there are a hell of a lot of cross over points in between those two extremes.
I have an insurance policy for remedial works should my installer go pop (transferable to new owners) that with an £100 excess means any significant installation issue is covered.
Of course it relies on manufacturers warranties for hardware and they rarely cover any costs in regards swapping etc.
There are various things to worry about here. My main concerns if I was to take over a DIY install would be liability should eg a panel come off and seriously damage someone elses property or absolute worst case, kill someone.
Right now I think ins cos are missing a trick and sooner or later one of them is going to get rinsed in regards a claim they had not priced in.
I genuinely expect at some point they will be far more interested in whats happened and who did it.
Its an interesting conversation for sure.
