Yes, fully installed.
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
I dont think my area had grants in a decade, what type of panels should they supply ? as a guestimate how much would I be looking at supplied and fitted ?
My energy bill is normally split 60/40 to electricity my bill at the moment is about £60-£100 this coming month could be more. I dont have a smart meter or a EV. I have no idea how much w or kw are im pulling, I never really thought about the hot water cylinder, we had a old one in the bathroom about 8 years ago when we updated the bathroom but we took it out.
"The issues relate to installers who simply don’t have a clue." this is the main reason I never got solar or heat pump years a go, the people who had near me, had too many issues.
Is it worth upgrading now or just wait till next year ? what kind of cost would I be looking at, and do suppliers still offer monthly payment option
Where do you live? In England, the ECO4 grant applies if you are on an income related benefit (e.g. universal credit or pension credit).
Have a look at your latest bill, it will have an annual usage or projection figure in kWh for both gas and electric. Post those numbers - the amount in £ you pay isn't super relevant as the costs vary materially by region and can be warped by the standing charge.
First port of call is to get a smart meter installed, you need one for solar and its free.
Get a smart meter
On the heat pump side you'll need to think about this, it can go in the loft or an attached garage if needed. It needs to be 'inside' but it can be an unheated space.
Finance will be expensive and cut into any returns you can expect from solar significantly due to interest rates. Do you have a mortgage? Some providers (e.g. Nationwide) are doing 0% loans for their mortgage customers for solar, otherwise I'd I'm not sure it is worth it due to the interest costs.
You need to run the numbers for your own property and financial circumstances. There is no RIO on heat pumps, installing it should be considered as a boiler replacement and a sunk cost upgrade to the house. It will cost less to run (potentially a material amount less with solar/battery) but it will never 'pay back' like a solar install would.
We are pretty much in a golden age of solar at the moment, export rates are very high, solar panels are so cheap and so good now and batteries have come down massively. Labour prices are going up and will only ever go up. Solar panels are getting better every year but panels are now so cheap (e.g. <£70 per panel wholesale), its hard to see how they can get cheaper, installation is now more expensive than the hardware for a solar only install (no battery). The quicker you get them, the quicker you benefit but I wouldn't get a loan unless it was very low/no cost.
As for heat pumps, they are as cheap as they are going to get and I can't see the price coming down. They have been around for decades and are installed widely across Europe, the UK is the exception. They already mass produced at huge volumes and while they are getting better, the big advances have already been made. Almost all of the cost is driven by retrofitting and labour. I had 4-5 people here for the best part of a week doing mine, that's a huge labour cost. If you are designing from scratch, the marginal cost to fitting a gas system is negligible.
The really good installers are taking advantage of the general shortage of skilled labour and making hay while they can but they tend to focus on high end/bespoke jobs. The likes of Octopus are competing hard at the entry level at a very competitive price (IMO). The grant for a heat pump is very generous, I can't see it going up. I'd say get in before the masses wake up and realise they are actually good bits of kit and cash in on the government grant - I'd expect it to be around a little while but as far as I am aware there is a fixed pot of cash and once its gone, its gone unless the government provides more funding.
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Estimated Annual Usage 2305.5 kWh
I'm not on (e.g. universal credit or pension credit). but family member does get disability and pension credit that lives at the same address.
Estimated Annual Usage 2305.5 kWh
I've been hesitant for years, due to the downside and the issues the first gen had, and a family member got way over changed and other issues when he changed years ago taking months to fight, are the new gen any better ?
I dont have a garage but do have a loft (but the access maybe too narrow) and cellar.
The property paid off, I'm not sure how affordable it would be, I'm not sure I could get the full solar package and pay it off in full without having money issues down the line. from a quote a neighbour shared with me, he got quoted £6000 last month,
do you have a link to the government grant, I don't think i've ever found a government grant beyond the basic insulation in my area (South Yorkshire) ?
also Just done a quick check on one site and this is the message I got
"The bad news is that because your property has an Energy Performance Certificate rating of C the property isn't currently eligible for ECO grants."
dont know if that normal.
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Modern smart meters are fine, there isn’t any reason not to get one. They will also help you understand your usage.
Google Eco4 grant but I wouldn’t expect you’d not be eligible as the person in recent of the benefit isn’t the homeowner but you’d have to check that.
Your electric usage is pretty low which so you could go for a smaller system but really it’s just a case of getting quotes and going from there.
Google Eco4 grant but I wouldn’t expect you’d not be eligible as the person in recent of the benefit isn’t the homeowner but you’d have to check that.
Your electric usage is pretty low which so you could go for a smaller system but really it’s just a case of getting quotes and going from there.
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Associate
Quick question about Tesla Powerwall3 settings in the app:
We have just switched to Octopus Intelligent Go, 7p off peak / 15p export (just had a car charger fitted, was on Flux previously).
In the Pw3 settings, do I leave energy exports as 'solar' or change to 'everything'?
I want the battery to charge off-peak, run the house at peak and export anything it has left before the cheap rate starts again.
Hope I have made sense there lol
Want to make sure this is right for the winter months (even though the solar is doing ok so far).
We have just switched to Octopus Intelligent Go, 7p off peak / 15p export (just had a car charger fitted, was on Flux previously).
In the Pw3 settings, do I leave energy exports as 'solar' or change to 'everything'?
I want the battery to charge off-peak, run the house at peak and export anything it has left before the cheap rate starts again.
Hope I have made sense there lol
Want to make sure this is right for the winter months (even though the solar is doing ok so far).
Associate
Googled it, yes above is correct
Associate
G99.
SP energy charged me 300 quid for it. Am told usually no charge.
Was expecting 10kW but came back as 8. Not a big deal for us as will use the leccy rather than expecting to export.
To balance this out internet install delay compo came through. Credit of 325 applied. I guess things netted off in the end. Which was nice.
SP energy charged me 300 quid for it. Am told usually no charge.
Was expecting 10kW but came back as 8. Not a big deal for us as will use the leccy rather than expecting to export.
To balance this out internet install delay compo came through. Credit of 325 applied. I guess things netted off in the end. Which was nice.
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Soldato
Someone educate me on my thought process…..
1.Why can i import electric at 10kws, but i cant export at 10kws withoit infrastructure upgrades?
2. If 50 properties can export at 3.6kws without infrastructure upgrades, why cant 1 property export at circa 6wks without infrastructure upgrades?.
Thanks fellow solarites.
1.Why can i import electric at 10kws, but i cant export at 10kws withoit infrastructure upgrades?
2. If 50 properties can export at 3.6kws without infrastructure upgrades, why cant 1 property export at circa 6wks without infrastructure upgrades?.
Thanks fellow solarites.
Soldato
I've seen these questions before, and they are very good questions, I'll do my best to answer with how I understand it.
The main answer is the system is designed for power to flow down the line, although it can flow up as well, but not as well as I understand it, this is referring mainly to transformers that step down the voltage, they don't step it up as well.
There is also a thing called diversity, probably the most powerful appliance people have had in their houses for years is an electric shower, this can draw a constant 7,8 or perhaps even 9kW but you only shower for a short time. Next an electric oven, again full power for a short time, then it goes on and off as temperature rises then drops, its not constant, same with electric hobs, you don't have all 4 rings on at once, if you do its very rare, and they are not constant, electric kettles short periods of time. If you took the full power rating of all of them, it would be a lot, but they are not on all the time, and at different times, that's diversity.
Now we move on to solar power, on a good day you could be exporting constantly for long periods, may be not a problem if its just one house, now take your 50 houses, all exporting, so not drawing any power, if that power is not used or cannot travel back up the line, the voltage will rise and exceed the safe limits for equipment (the UK range is 216 to 253 volts). Inverters export by raising the voltage above grid voltage, too many, not enough draw and your voltages rises too much, and they cut out, voltage drops, they cut in again. It will cause problems.
EV chargers, and I believe heat pumps need DNO permission to be installed, for the same reason, but in reverse, too much power draw on the local grid, and the voltage will drop, when the voltage drops current increases, again this can lead to problems. EV chargers could be a constant power draw for long periods.
If you had 50 houses, and they all installed 3.68kWp of solar, its highly likely grid upgrades will be required, but the DNO has to pay as each house is legally entitled to export at up to 3.68kW.
Typically it houses in sparsely populated area's that have more restrictions/issues, areas that may be on the end of a long line for example.
Balancing the grid is not easy, and a lot people don't realise this, or understand it.
Perhaps you're area is a bit close to the limits, and they want to keep some back in case others add solar, give everybody too much and the DNO may need to pay for upgrades.
The main answer is the system is designed for power to flow down the line, although it can flow up as well, but not as well as I understand it, this is referring mainly to transformers that step down the voltage, they don't step it up as well.
There is also a thing called diversity, probably the most powerful appliance people have had in their houses for years is an electric shower, this can draw a constant 7,8 or perhaps even 9kW but you only shower for a short time. Next an electric oven, again full power for a short time, then it goes on and off as temperature rises then drops, its not constant, same with electric hobs, you don't have all 4 rings on at once, if you do its very rare, and they are not constant, electric kettles short periods of time. If you took the full power rating of all of them, it would be a lot, but they are not on all the time, and at different times, that's diversity.
Now we move on to solar power, on a good day you could be exporting constantly for long periods, may be not a problem if its just one house, now take your 50 houses, all exporting, so not drawing any power, if that power is not used or cannot travel back up the line, the voltage will rise and exceed the safe limits for equipment (the UK range is 216 to 253 volts). Inverters export by raising the voltage above grid voltage, too many, not enough draw and your voltages rises too much, and they cut out, voltage drops, they cut in again. It will cause problems.
EV chargers, and I believe heat pumps need DNO permission to be installed, for the same reason, but in reverse, too much power draw on the local grid, and the voltage will drop, when the voltage drops current increases, again this can lead to problems. EV chargers could be a constant power draw for long periods.
If you had 50 houses, and they all installed 3.68kWp of solar, its highly likely grid upgrades will be required, but the DNO has to pay as each house is legally entitled to export at up to 3.68kW.
Typically it houses in sparsely populated area's that have more restrictions/issues, areas that may be on the end of a long line for example.
Balancing the grid is not easy, and a lot people don't realise this, or understand it.
Perhaps you're area is a bit close to the limits, and they want to keep some back in case others add solar, give everybody too much and the DNO may need to pay for upgrades.
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Soldato
Brilliant reply and thanks for taking the time to respond. My MP is on the case with national grid as he wasnt happy with them trying to pass the upgrade costs onto property owners, especially when the welsh government have got net zero targets to reach and see renewables as a big way of reaching it.
He is passing my query onto his contacts at national grid to speak to me and talk through what is perceived as a big issue in local communities with high levels of poverty and unemployment and asking people who are willing to invest in renewables like myself to pay for upgrades to the grid is not what welsh labour want in their fight for net zero.
Lets see where this goes, as im only asking for 6kws here, which is only a small extra above the 4.6 offered. .
Associate
Its very area dependent. I thought we'd be extremely limited here as its rural, but we were lucky enough to have no export limit. As it turns out, the area has had large upgrades due to the nearby Hornsea wind farm. We're also on a new estate which also meant new infrastructure. Mind you, I still had to wait for permission for an EV charger!
Soldato
You might get you're 1.4kW just to keep you quiet. If we didn't pay as individuals when our wants and needs caused them, then the cost would filter down to electricity bills anyway, the money has to come from somewhere to upgrade the grid if its deemed it can't cope.
Soldato
Yeh i get that, but with welsh labour handing out grants for ev chargers, heat pumps etc etc……i dont see why they cant help fund local upgrades to the grid when required too. To help meet their net zero targets….every little helps as one big supermarket says lol
Soldato
Well, I guess there's plenty of money on Labours magic money tree after yesterday 
Associate
Now the G99 is back. Install date is booked in. Will be 2 days come a week on Monday. All happening pretty quickly.
Gonna have to clear the garage.
Gonna have to clear the garage.
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Soldato
My area is like this. The DNO run the grid on the ragged edge of stability for whatever reason (likely many many years of insufficient investment). I have had very very high voltages here (I've seen almost 280v!!) but now after a lot of complaining on my part, I have been moved - or at least I suspect I have because I've had some 1-2s long power blips in the last few weeks. This has resulted in my voltages dropping well below the threshold for "loss of supply", for example this afternoon I saw 214v for a second or two. The DNO doesn't care all that much about high voltage but they get ruined by the regulator for low voltages due to it counting as a loss of supply, which is why they all seem to err on the high side of things.
I don't envy the DNOs trying to manage all of this microgeneration stuff alongside new, unpredictable and in domestic context at least, massive loads like EV charging coming along. I am regularly pulling 14-16kW from the grid now, usually for hours on end. In the summer I'm sending back 5kW for large chunks of the day. Must be a nightmare for them to manage it all and i really do expect we'll see some sort of grid-wide 'event' soon enough, possibly followed by sweeping changes to domestic microgeneration like has happened elsewhere.
Soldato
Just seen this, could be useful for anyone wanting solar.
If getting the energy companies to do the install, thoroughly check pricing as the "interest" maybe built into the price, if you get my drift.
If getting the energy companies to do the install, thoroughly check pricing as the "interest" maybe built into the price, if you get my drift.
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Associate
Are folk generally on fixed outgoing or also with e.g. Agile outgoing for their export tariff? I'm looking back and really don't see the benefit that much, the price is rarely over 15p/kWh so isn't it usually better to just take the fixed 15p?