Southport stabbings

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It’s a shame some on here are using this as political point scoring.

If it’s mental health then someone in charge of that system needs to be held accountable. If it’s extremist ideology or religion then those faith leaders need to get on top of it and integrate with British values or be dealt with. Even gang crime which is now spilling onto the streets affecting everyday people, it needs to be dealt with.

This is shocking no matter the motive. It needs to be talked about, tackled and dealt with without people (unless justified) being called left with or right wing.

It’s a sad sad time we live in where someone finds taking another (let alone a child’s) life so easy
 
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Now we're getting somewhere

Their former next door neighbour, a 55-year-old civil servant who didn't want to be named said: 'The youngest child was very quiet, an introvert

'He was quite clingy to his mum while his older brother was more boisterous and would stick his tongue out at you.'

'They were an ordinary couple struggling to make a go of things here. I would speak to them over the garden fence but didn't get to know them well. They were renting here for about 18 months to two years.

'The youngest boy hadn't started school but the older one was at the primary nearby.

'The eldest boy would be kicking footballs, but the youngest was quiet, he was very young.'

I know the Daily Mail like to scrape the barrel looking for clicks but interviewing next door neighbours of a decade ago who are waffling about a kid who hadn't even started school as being quiet is just irrelevant drivel.
 
How much is the house worth ?

That came in the next bit of the quote

'The dad went out to work but I think she was a stay-at-home mum. I remember the dad saying he'd got a job in Liverpool and I thought 'good for you mate'.

'They had a car, a small hatchback, I don't think she drove. They must have had lots of money, it wouldn't have been a cheap rent. This is a lovely estate in a nice part of Cardiff.'
 
Let's hope Starmer cracks down on knife crime though.
Anyone found with a knife in public should get 1 year per inch of blade.
Legally it seems we're allowed to carry a knife with a 3inch blade.

so anyone with a knife over 3 inches that's not in it's original sealed packing with a receipt showing it was bought on the day... goes by bye
No trial, no judge just sent straight to prison.
 
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I know the Daily Mail like to scrape the barrel looking for clicks but interviewing next door neighbours of a decade ago who are waffling about a kid who hadn't even started school as being quiet is just irrelevant drivel.

Doesn't make it any less right, we need to investigate his online activity to find out how it got to the point of stabbing children. As I said, thoughts like this don't fall out of the sky, even if he was "mentally ill" they get formed over time.
 
I know the Daily Mail like to scrape the barrel looking for clicks but interviewing next door neighbours of a decade ago who are waffling about a kid who hadn't even started school as being quiet is just irrelevant drivel.
Don't ruin his perceived enjoyment of "getting somewhere" wherever that is :rolleyes:
 
Doesn't make it any less right, we need to investigate his online activity to find out how it got to the point of stabbing children. As I said, thoughts like this don't fall out of the sky, even if he was "mentally ill" they get formed over time.
Well it states he knew him when he hadnt started school. So I doubt he had much online activity. Completely pointless article.
 
Doesn't make it any less right

It makes it irrelevant waffle for generating page views on the Daily Mail and nothing more

People investigating will be pursuing all these avenues of enquiries anyway, they don't need an old neighbour saying the kid was quiet to think 'ah, best check his internet history'.
 
If someone is this broken no amount of banning stuff will help. If you want to kill people, you can.

What's important is why and how someone can even think about doing this. Let alone doing it.

What sort of mental health or radicalisation could get you to this point.

Especially if you're born here.

Its mind boggling really.
 
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Anyone found with a knife in public should get 1 year per inch of blade.
Legally it seems we're allowed to carry a knife with a 3inch blade.

so anyone with a knife over 3 inches that's not in it's original sealed packing with a receipt showing it was bought on the day... goes by bye
No trial, no judge just sent straight to prison.


Really legally can carry 3 inch blade? I can't think of any legitimate reason anyone needs to carry. Some trades for 'bladed' items I guess, those could be through permits.

Others especially large knives/machetes, etc should be tough sentences
Not poncy stuff
 
Labour wont do anything, it will stay the same.

But true, you can't really ban knives. Only having one on you.
Which is basically what the law is already.
IIRC what has been changing very slowly is that an increasing number of the "showy but useless for practical purpose" type knives have been banned from sale, even though it's still sadly easy to get hold of a lot of them because various online retailers don't actually care much*.

Unfortunately IF this is mental illness, and I'm going to stress that it would likely be something really severe and untreated of one of the rarer types (and even then only a tiny percentage of those cases) there isn't much you can do to stop people from doing it without a lot more governmental support than has been the case for years. I'm also going to stress that the vat majority of mental health issues are far more of a risk for the person with them than anyone else.

I am just about old enough to remember the utter shambles that was "care in the community" when a lot of people that had previously been in secure/semi secure mental health facilities were released onto the street because most of them didn't actually need to be basically locked away, unfortunately the government of the time did it largely as a cost saving measure and didn't ensure there was sufficient support/professional help on hand 24/7 to supervise those that needed it, and worse not enough to deal with emergencies or follow up on urgent alerts from people concerned about the very small number that were potentially a danger not just to themselves. I remember a number of killings resulting from that back then, and the uproar and that was well before the days of 24/7 news or anti social media nonsense.

I can see exactly the same thing has been happening for years now, and know from first hand experience how hard it is to get help for someone whose condition affected their mental abilities, even with a doctor trying to arrange assistance.
For all we know at the moment the family of the guy may have been raising the alarm/trying to get help and not getting anywhere, which is one of the reasons I think it's utterly stupid for people to be blaming religion, skin colour, where someone's parents/grandparents came from, or what pizza topping they had before there has been any actual investigation.





Really legally can carry 3 inch blade? I can't think of any legitimate reason anyone needs to carry. Some trades for 'bladed' items I guess, those could be through permits.

Others especially large knives/machetes, etc should be tough sentences
Not poncy stuff
IIRC some hobbies or crafts can also require large knives, but the law already require you have a good reason to have them on you and generally speaking that would mean proving you're carrying them to/from the place you need them (and iirc ideally out of sight/in a suitable container or bag).

In theory there is already a mandatory sentence from memory.



*I had to prove proof of age to an amazon driver for a tiny (IIRC the smallest) swiss army knife, and a "patio knife", but not for things like large box cutters or various other bladed items (including a different patio knife).
 
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Anyone found with a knife in public should get 1 year per inch of blade.
Legally it seems we're allowed to carry a knife with a 3inch blade.

so anyone with a knife over 3 inches that's not in it's original sealed packing with a receipt showing it was bought on the day... goes by bye
No trial, no judge just sent straight to prison.
Banning knives is not going to fix anything - we already have very strict laws (probably too strict).

Evil creeps will just find another way to cause mayhem - whether it just improvised bombs or cars etc etc.

What we must do is deal with the root cause - whether that is detaining psychos in mental asylums or banning ideologies that advocate for murder and mayhem.

The police must also be funded properly - with more patrols etc and protections to prevent the kind of witch hunt we saw after the Manchester airport debacle.
 
Firstly, what a horrendous experience for those that were there at the time, and a ghastily thing for the parents to face, We can only hope we don't have to face something like that.


Having read this thread it appears


1) The 17-year old is as British as anyone else that was born in the UK....his parents are not.
I see the commentary went from "shoulda been stopped arriving" whenever it was thought he came over on a boat, to "parents should never been allowed to arrive". What if the parents were 60 and the guy was 40. Is it because the parents were allowed in 60 years ago. At what point in time is it no longer an immigration issue. What if it wasn't his parents, but his grandparents that came to the UK ? It appears certain people on the socials just immediately wanted this to be an immgrant issue, as did some commentators. Even the meaning of "originally from" was being dissected.

2) It seems weird that there has been scores of posts discussing why a name has not been released and implying it is some sort of cover up, firstly a cover-up when he was an immigrant, and now a cover up because he has a what is deemed a non-british name. (It is worth remembering that the most common name for a baby boy born in the UK in 2022 and 2023 was muhammad, all of them are british btw). The murderers of James Bulger being named has been offered as an example. But their names were only released AFTER they were found guilty, and on a judge order. As far as I know, no names is ever released for a child that has not been convicted. There is no cover up, it is the law.

I'm wondering how he ended up at this particular place. Yes, if the story is correct he got a taxi, but did he just see it advertised or does he have some association with that area that has not yet been discovered.
 
Firstly, what a horrendous experience for those that were there at the time, and a ghastily thing for the parents to face, We can only hope we don't have to face something like that.


Having read this thread it appears


1) The 17-year old is as British as anyone else that was born in the UK....his parents are not.
I see the commentary went from "shoulda been stopped arriving" whenever it was thought he came over on a boat, to "parents should never been allowed to arrive". What if the parents were 60 and the guy was 40. Is it because the parents were allowed in 60 years ago. At what point in time is it no longer an immigration issue. What if it wasn't his parents, but his grandparents that came to the UK ? It appears certain people on the socials just immediately wanted this to be an immgrant issue, as did some commentators. Even the meaning of "originally from" was being dissected.

2) It seems weird that there has been scores of posts discussing why a name has not been released and implying it is some sort of cover up, firstly a cover-up when he was an immigrant, and now a cover up because he has a what is deemed a non-british name. (It is worth remembering that the most common name for a baby boy born in the UK in 2022 and 2023 was muhammad, all of them are british btw). The murderers of James Bulger being named has been offered as an example. But their names were only released AFTER they were found guilty, and on a judge order. As far as I know, no names is ever released for a child that has not been convicted. There is no cover up, it is the law.

I'm wondering how he ended up at this particular place. Yes, if the story is correct he got a taxi, but did he just see it advertised or does he have some association with that area that has not yet been discovered.

How can you be British if your parents aren't?

Isn't British a set of values, not a birth place?

I'm not arguing for or against if this man is British or not, but stating he is or isn't because of birth location isn't right. Being British isn't just being born here, it's far far more than that.

It's definitely not as simple as you make out.
 
How can you be British if your parents aren't?

Isn't British a set of values, not a birth place?

I'm not arguing for or against if this man is British or not, but stating he is or isn't because of birth location isn't right. Being British isn't just being born here, it's far far more than that.

It's definitely not as simple as you make out.

Technically I'm British according to one of my passports... although I wasn't born here. Isn't that enough? I thought British meant being a citizen of the united kingdom?

I don't really care where the person's from and ultimately it's not what will have stopped the stabbings, there is something completely wrong with that person to want to go and kill children regardless of whether you're British or believe in fairies or have 6 toes.
 
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