Southport stabbings

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arknor said:
Anyone found with a knife in public should get 1 year per inch of blade.
Legally it seems we're allowed to carry a knife with a 3inch blade.

so anyone with a knife over 3 inches that's not in it's original sealed packing with a receipt showing it was bought on the day... goes by bye
No trial, no judge just sent straight to prison.
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Or maybe just sensible rules and don't let in the entire world? I know the English have a **** fetish or something but really not everyone in the world has to be let in with no controls.

Don't get me wrong Switzerland isn't nearly strict enough in my opinion but even so we still have knives and guns because we keep some form of order. We are proudly multicultural but we expect a certain calibre and behaviour of people.
 
Begbie said:
How can you be British if your parents aren't?

Isn't British a set of values, not a birth place?

I'm not arguing for or against if this man is British or not, but stating he is or isn't because of birth location isn't right. Being British isn't just being born here, it's far far more than that.

It's definitely not as simple as you make out.
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He was born here, grew up here for 17 years... I think it counts.

Whatever negative influences hes had beyond (or inside) of that is more important than arguing about whether or not he's "British".
 
Begbie said:
How can you be British if your parents aren't?
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Are we really going down this route?

Why is it that stating someone is British only ever seems to be questioned when it’s a wrongun.

As for British values, nobody ever seems to be able to give a conclusive list of what they are. The ones I've seen mentioned, there are people from all sorts of backgrounds, born in this country, who don't adhere to them.
 
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Begbie said:
How can you be British if your parents aren't?

Isn't British a set of values, not a birth place?

I'm not arguing for or against if this man is British or not, but stating he is or isn't because of birth location isn't right. Being British isn't just being born here, it's far far more than that.

It's definitely not as simple as you make out.
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Just out of interest , what are British set of values ?
 
Begbie said:
How can you be British if your parents aren't?

Isn't British a set of values, not a birth place?

I'm not arguing for or against if this man is British or not, but stating he is or isn't because of birth location isn't right. Being British isn't just being born here, it's far far more than that.

It's definitely not as simple as you make out.
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Pretty well explained on how it all works.
 
StriderX said:
He was born here, grew up here for 17 years... I think it counts.

Whatever negative influences hes had beyond (or inside) of that is more important than arguing about whether or not he's "British".
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I knew that'd get jumped on, my point is it's not as simple as someone is British because you are born somewhere.

I have never met this man, nor know his motives. But I don't think it's quite as simple as born in x then I'm x.
 
Freefaller said:
Technically I'm British according to one of my passports... although I wasn't born here. Isn't that enough? I thought British meant being a citizen of the united kingdom?

I don't really care where the person's from and ultimately it's not what will have stopped the stabbings, there is something completely wrong with that person to want to go and kill children regardless of whether you're British or believe in fairies or have 6 toes.
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Would you identify as British or not? I think half the problem is that rules and definitions are based on "decent character". Something that is openly abused by some which is why you can end up with multi generational problems.

From everything I've read from you on the forum you sound pretty well adjusted, contribute to family life and community with good work ethic. That is a stark contrast from someone who comes across hating the country they move to and then settle into their "community" (thus robbing the chance for their children to be able to properly participate).

Technically both of you are the same and the reality is you are not.
 
en.wikipedia.org

Invasions of the British Isles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

So I guess if you have Beaker, Celtic, Roman, Germanic, Viking and Norman heritage, you're not truly British
Begbie said:
I knew that'd get jumped on, my point is it's not as simple as someone is British because you are born somewhere.
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He was born in Britain 17 years ago, he has only lived in Britain, how the **** can he not be British ? :cry:
 
It’s an interesting point that I’ll try and start a debate on but will probably get shot down for being one thing or another.
It is an interesting view from both sides this

Say if he was born in Britain but all his life he had had influences from a family, friends or media that is from another country that doesn’t agree with our values. And it turns out that is the reason why he committed this attack.. is he really British ?

Do we cut a straight line and say yes born in Britain so he is British or do we go deeper ?

Can we start saying he was brought up in this country but under a different ideology or extreme part of a faith so he doesn’t fit British ?

In my old line of work, which may make me a bit biased I dealt with a lot of mental health patients that weren’t ‘managed’ for a better term. I still think it might be this but what ever it is it’s going to cause so many issues on the so called both sides of views.

Just throwing it out there
 
Minusorange said:
en.wikipedia.org

Invasions of the British Isles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

So I guess if you have Beaker, Celtic, Roman, Germanic, Viking and Norman heritage, you're not truly British

He was born in Britain 17 years ago, he has only lived in Britain, how the **** can he not be British ? :cry:
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Ironic that you use invasions to prove a point.


But no I believe that being born in the land, or being handed a passport doesn't make you British. Just like me going to Japan, getting a passport doesn't make me Japanese.
 
robgmun said:
we need to investigate his online activity to find out how it got to the point of stabbing children. As I said, thoughts like this don't fall out of the sky, even if he was "mentally ill" they get formed over time.
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Very much this, although I expect the police are already doing it.
And “if” they find a website or chat group etc, then it may lead to more of the same not happening again.
 
Brizzles said:
We need to understand the reasons and shooting him, although justified, would not answer anything.
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Of course the problem with this, is that once the opportunity to shoot him has passed, it will never come around again. He will now exist as a burden on us all for the remainder of his life.
 
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